Kuppo, I agree that you "have" to generally support what Wikileaks do. But I'm okay with people thinking that Wikileaks should be more selective in what they release.

This is basically my view. Obviously, I approve of Wikileaks revealing widespread corruption in governments. However, it is an oversimplification to consider any organization either wholly positive or negative, without any room for gray.

There isn't much evidence of corruption in the leaked diplomatic cables. The worst example of corruption is probably spying on foreign diplomats. But everyone already knows the US has spies, so this really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. If that is the worst example of corruption in all the leaked cables, that's not too bad, really. If anything, this is evidence that the American government has been fairly honest.

Since there's not much corruption going on, I fail to see any great benefit to releasing the cables. On the other hand, there's a large potential for harm in releasing the cables. It hurts diplomacy when the leaders of other nations know what America really thinks of them. If other nations are taking aggressive actions (say, Pakistan is behaving aggressively towards India), they may be less willing to listen to US appeals for peace. And releasing sensitive security information could put a number of individuals at risk.

Obviously, I believe in the right to free speech. But that right comes with a responsibility not to use it in ways that cause harm. You don't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, you don't spread lies to discredit another, and you don't give criminals a business's security credentials. Wikileaks should stick to releasing information about dishonesty and corruption in governments, instead of releasing sensitive diplomatic information that puts lives at risk.


(apologies for turning this into a political discussion, but the thread was going in that direction already).

To keep this short: the leaks reveal massive corruption and illegality, including war crimes (and spying on United Nations diplomats is not a small thing, either). And there is no evidence that anyone has ever been harmed by a leak, other than hypocritical politicians. Not a single person has been harmed, but a lot of crimes have been exposed.

But if we want to go into the politics of this, let's start a new thread.

Anyway, Gnome and I are currently working on a website for the project. It should be up in a few days.

["I want to rub the human face in its own vomit and force it to look in the mirror."]

Really there should be more political games in general. And I don't mean political in a shallow right/left dichotomy way. There is something bigger going on here; Wikileaks, Adbusters, Anonymous and even the Pirate Bay are the infancy of a new movement in Western politics. The battle is no longer about traditional wedge issues, its no longer about which politicians we elect. Its about who controls the flow of information, its about the internet generation vs. the old powers and the status-quo. The institutions of Western society (our churches, banks, schools, communities, and governments) have lost our trust, perhaps our only hope lies in the anarchy that a free internet represents.

Both Gnome and I are socialists, but Wikileaks is also getting support from Ron Paul - not exactly on the same side of the political spectrum as we are! There are many reasons to support Wikileaks, as long as you believe in democracy and freedom of speech.

I'm thinking of creating a contest in the New Year for "Transgressive Games". Games that are raw, subversive, ugly, irreverent. As J.G Ballard said "I want to rub the human face in its own vomit and force it to look in the mirror."

Anyone else interested in a contest/collective around that theme?

Definitely. I'm all for games that push the envelope.

I think joke games are fine, but there's more to this project than quickly whipping up some Wikileaks-themed thingy just to get attention. Whether your game is humorous (screw the people who say humour is not an important artistic tool) or more on the sombre side, there's a lot that can be achieved with this material, and I'd really like to see the various approaches that the indie community can bring to this.

If you're not interested or think Wikileaks is the incarnation of the Devil, that's your right. But those of you who believe in what Wikileaks stands for, and are interested in participating, please do consider giving this some of your time.

Is there a deadline of some sort. My schedule is currently too clogged up with studies to do any substantial game dev, but I might find some time after Christmas.

To quote Gnome's Lair:

Important note: WikiLeaks Stories is not a compo. There is no deadline. Whenever you decide to actually start and/or publish your game will be fine, as these stories will be equally important in a year or a decade from now. The battle for online free speech and against corporate/state censorship will -surely- also remain more than crucial.

What's more, WikiLeaks Stories is once again proving that the game community is interested in such political matters and that gaming is not something that ignores society/life/universe/fish.

Oh, and:

I'd actually rather see an anti-Wikileaks game than a pro-Wikileaks one. That's what I was originally thinking of when I read about making games about Wikileaks.

While I personally think that's sad, I also believe it is your right to make such games. We don't believe in freedom of speech if we don't believe in it for the people we disagree with. Wikileaks Stories is, of course, not the framework for an anti-Wikileaks game, but if you want to make such a game, go ahead.

It looks quite impressive! I like the visuals and the concept a lot. But I don't have a PS3 and I'm not getting one. Shame.

Wikileaks Stories in the media:

• Kotaku
• GameSetWatch
• AolNews
• Technolog.MSNBC.com
• Computerspiele.com (German)
• ifwizz interactive fiction (German)
• Spiele.T-online.de (German)

I think this project can also showcase the potential of indie games to be an interesting, challenging part of the political and cultural discourse (or an attack on the vapidity thereof).

I don't have time to make anything for this sadly. Also while the issue interests me greatly nothing comes to mind in terms of game ideas. Like Increpare I was more interested in what you could do with the war diaries data they posted a while back.

Why not do that, then? I think it would still fit perfectly well into the basic outline of the project - making games about Wikileaks. The war diaries haven't been discussed enough, and I'd love to see what you came up with. I'm sure the grand Gnome would agree with me.

If you want to support Wikileaks and their cause, it is probably a bad idea to focus too much on Assange.

I think it's perfectly legit to focus on Assange and what's being done to him (even if he were an actual rapist, the Swedish prosecutor is acting very unprofessionally, as Swedish law experts have pointed out). But I think it's good to remember that Assange is simply editor-in-chief of Wikileaks; the organization is much bigger than one man.

In other news, I was actually interviewed by a German journalist today; he's writing an article about "newsgames" and was interested in this project. I think the notion of Wikileaks games really appeals to people - perhaps because it's a way of looking at the data from a different perspective.

The news about this project has spread far and wide, to a degree I find rather shocking (in a good way).

Participate, people! If you're interested in the subject, this is an excellent chance to put your skills to work on something small but meaningful. It's a game design challenge as well as a political one, and a unique opportunity to create art about a historical event we're all part of.

I've been trying to think of something like this for a while, but haven't come up with anything yet. The vast amounts of structured data in the war logs is very tempting, but...still I found it difficult to deal with.  Ah well.  See what happens.

I kept thinking of something Tower-Defense-like, protecting servers from DDoS attacks, every level completed leading to another leak (using the real data)... but I probably suck too much as a programmer to pull that off. So I'll go for something I'm more experienced with, i.e. an adventure game of some kind.

Gaming blog Gnome's Lair has announced a project called Wikileaks Stories:

The 6th of December is a very important day indeed, especially if you live in Greece. Two years ago a 15 year old boy, Alexis, was brutally murdered by the police. It was a shocking event that led to a month-long revolt throughout Greece, which signaled a new phase of civil disobedience. Today, just like last year, the streets are once again (already) overrun by the angry youth (and many more) and this blog is happy. Then again, a blog can't help you join the students, workers and school-kids of Greece.

It can on the other hand interest you, oh fickle reader, with a new indie gaming initiative: WikiLeaks Stories. A selection of short and sometimes longer games that will turn some of the more interesting WikiLeaks ...err... leaks into playable stories. Maybe even provide you with a hacker game that will let you attempt to battle the powerful censors and their allies; we'll see about that.

Now, where are them games? Well, they are being made. I have already put a variety of other projects on hold and started working on a piece of WikiLeaks Stories interactive fiction (you know, a text adventure) and Jonas Kyratzes will soon come up with something himself. Hopefully a few more indie developers will join the fun, as being indie does not simply mean going for a pixel-art look...

So, if you're interested in this, please join us in making games about the facts that governments like to keep secret.

(Oh, and it would be really nice if this thread could discuss the project, not the fact that you believe Wikileaks to be evil traitors who need to be democratically assassinated. I'm sure you can find another space for that.)

This is one hell of an enjoyable game. Excellent work!

Why must a Christian game be Bible-focused? Is The Lord of the Rings Bible-focused? I say again: there is a long history of Christian art which is not propaganda. Christian art doesn't need to teach, it needs to engage with the philosophy of Christianity. Despite certain absolutists, understanding of Christ and his message, as well as of God and the meaning of life, varies wildly in Christian communities. A Christian game would be a game with Christian themes: love, mercy, pity, redemption, sacrifice... It doesn't need to be explicitly Christian in its language or setting.

Uh, Jesus is talking about washing your hands there, dude.  Read the next few verses lol.

Actually, it's the verses before it. And so what? The scene is specifically about traditions, and this particular phrase has often been seen as breaking with food-related traditions.

 Also, I'd suggest not using the KJB as a main text, since it's a pretty notoriously ridiculous translation.  It translates the singular Hebrew word for bull as the plural English word unicorns just as one example.

Almost every version of the Bible is full of inconsistencies of one type or another, many due to the nature and age of the Old Testament (such as the fact that some passages date back to the time when the religion was still polytheistic). And yes, the King James Version does have many flaws. But it is also very influential and at times very beautiful.

Oh, here's another one: Metroid II. Such a masterpiece of design and atmosphere, and so many people still don't get it.

Kosher food, the high priesthood, the sacrificial system, etc. were not changed directly by what Jesus taught, but directly by what Jesus did when he was crucified.

"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." Matthew 15:11

The only answer that makes sense to me is it depends on what game you're making. There are no absolute rules about these things.

Also, I'm not sure what you think is different about Jesus's message from the older stuff, you can derive most of Jesus' teachings straight from the Old Testament, including his claims to deity.  The New Testament as a whole serves to clarify what was already said and back it up with first and second-hand accounts.

Actually, Jesus actively contradicts many of the laws of the Old Testament, from "an eye for an eye" to kosher food. He also says a lot about being a good person, loving your neighbour and your enemy; but "repentance" is not really part of his message.

As far as games, tho, I equate christian games (or other religious games of that sort) to marketing games or educational games. They're either trying to teach you something or they're trying to recruit you.

This is how things currently are, but do they have to? There is a long history of remarkable Christian art which is neither propaganda nor sermon; if games could draw on that vast cultural tradition, great things could be achieved.

Dark Messiah of Might & Magic got trashed by quite a few critics, but it's incredibly enjoyable.

Soulbringer also got trashed a fair bit and isn't very well-known, but it's one of my favourite games of all time, and one of the very few games ever to feel like a real epic.

I also said history of the Bible, not of Christian religion as a whole.

Good point.

It should also be noted that Blake was not at all a fan of rationalism or enlightenment - he had no cares for apparent contradictions.

Blake's relationship to "reason" is not simple at all, and changed quite a bit over the years. What he disliked the most was the dogmatic, politically oppressive mentality that came with what was considered to be "reason" at the time (which was often as much reason as eugenics was at the beginning of the 20th century). Blake also thought that most of Tom Paine's criticisms of the Bible were quite correct. It's a complex topic, and probably not quite the point of this discussion.

I'd love to play a serious Christian game, by the way, even though I'm agnostic myself. But what is a Christian story? The Lord of the Rings is thoroughly Christian in its philosophy, but there is nothing explicitly Christian about the setting at all - intentionally so. Compare that to the offensive propaganda that is Narnia.

There you have a short, objective history of the Bible, brought on by the comments regarding the differences between the Old and New Testaments.

Except for the bit where the Christians take over the Roman Empire and spend the next one and a half thousand years persecuting everyone.

That Blake quote makes very little sense when you consider that Jesus and God are the same entity (or else it would not be a monotheistic religion).

It makes plenty of sense within Blake's system of thought. And not every worshipper of Christ identifies Christ with God, or thinks the Bible is infallible. As for Christianity being monotheistic, that's a whole discussion unto itself.