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1  Community / Writing / Re: Redefining The Classic RPG Story on: December 22, 2011, 11:42:39 AM
Woah... that's deep bro.

I'm going to go into the weird because I am and because I can and expand on good and evil: 

Good and Evil in a shallow story typically is represented by the colors black and white.  as in white is good, black is evil. 

But to expand on the color analogy further, in an involving story, nothing ever stays white or ever stays black, we have also a whole spectrum of colors being worked in, and including their cold/warm counterparts, and saturation levels. 

I like to think about this when watching films, or playing games, or listening to music, associating colors with scenes, characters, mood.  I think fundamentally we already do this on a subtle level and associate feelings and thoughts to color.

And without acknowledging this, we choose a palette for the scenery and for the characters, according to how we perceive feelings/thoughts as colors.

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Along with any great story is a wonderful score as well.  Which seems to say the pacing of the story is important, so pacing is in line with a great melody or what have you, colors are follow that melody, becoming vibrant when score builds up, becoming dull when the score flattens out.

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huh huh I don't know I pulled that out of my butt but think it's true.  it's all interconnected man, solid music makes a solid story makes solid graphics makes solid music -> 
2  Community / Writing / Re: Redefining The Classic RPG Story on: December 15, 2011, 06:01:06 PM
So, first of all, I'm gonna assume you're using the term "epic" in the modern usage, which now roughly equates to that feeling you get when you slather your balls in Icy-Hot...

I like people with a sense of humor. LOL

Really, though, "epic" is all about scope. Take any RPG. Almost all of them have you starting out fixing problems in a small town, and by the end of the game you're traveling among the stars. That's your "epic" model. That's all there is to it.

Now, the cool thing is that this whole thing of gradually increasing the scope of the story, over time, is a naturally engaging story model. After all, everyone likes to see their actions gain significance! However, when you get down to it, doing this correctly involves a pretty vicious balancing act. For example, once you bump the scope up one notch, you can't go down from there. Otherwise, the player would lose interest, and wonder why they're doing menial tasks when there are bigger tasks at hand. Likewise, the scaling of scope matters as well. Keep the player in the same town for three hours, and they'll wonder if they're making any progress. However, ramp the scale up to unreasonable levels too early, and the player will become disillusioned and wonder if there was any point to their actions at all. Plus, once you're at the top, you have nowhere to go.

Finally, here are some games you might wanna look at for inspiration and whatnot.
* Even though it's not an RPG, go watch Gurren Lagann. If anything, the show scales in scope extremely well.
* Also, go play Star Ocean (SNES). This game commits the fatal mistake of dragging the scope up to space early in the game, and then dumping you back on your own piddly little planet for the next few hours.
* Radiant Silvergun is known as one of the first "epic" shmups, and somehow it is able to pull a compelling story using as little dialogue as possible. Definitely worth a look.
* Finally, the Golden Sun series might be interesting, not just because it scaled up well through the first two games, but also because it shows what happens when you decided to make a sequel yet are left with nowhere to go.

Also, all of this fall flat if the story itself is garbage, so keep that in mind. :-)

This has a lot of good information and I've completely forgotten about the Golden Sun series. It was so damn good... That bit about scaling is definitely something to keep in mind when writing this story. I'm going to update my OP with the current information gathered in this thread for future viewers.
3  Community / Writing / Re: Redefining The Classic RPG Story on: December 15, 2011, 05:27:46 PM
Thanks for the advice guys! This was the right place to go to Smiley
4  Community / Writing / Redefining The Classic RPG Story on: December 15, 2011, 03:02:27 PM
Remember when RPGs relied on a beautiful, well defined, story to make a great game? Remember the EPIC of FFIV? Today's RPGs have been relying on pretty graphics and movie sequences to distract the player from a bad story. Not saying ALL modern RPGs are like that, but quite a few are.

My project is going to redefine the RPG story. It's time to go back to the roots of what TRULY made a story epic. Here are some quick notes I've jotted down from some "research" I've done to name a few...

  • Epic Hero
  • Hero's Inner Battle
  • Memorable Characters
  • Memorable Bosses
  • Prophesy and Destiny
  • Good Vs. Evil
  • Betrayal, Strife and Redemption

Are there any thoughts, opinions or ideas? I really want to flesh this out not only for myself but for anyone wanting to create the epic RPG story-line. Some resources would also be welcomed.

-= Discussed Thus Far =-
Scope and proper Scaling are important!
Quote from: Noah!
For example, once you bump the scope up one notch, you can't go down from there. Otherwise, the player would lose interest, and wonder why they're doing menial tasks when there are bigger tasks at hand. Likewise, the scaling of scope matters as well. Keep the player in the same town for three hours, and they'll wonder if they're making any progress. However, ramp the scale up to unreasonable levels too early, and the player will become disillusioned and wonder if there was any point to their actions at all. Plus, once you're at the top, you have nowhere to go.

Non-Generic World Building
Quote from: SundownKid
Make the setting have an interesting conceit so that no one who's playing is "used to it" - e.g. not a standard medieval fantasy world. Whether you're playing as a germ or a super powerful god, there are no crazy ideas, only undeveloped ones.

Fleshing out Characters and Characterization
Quote from: SundownKid
In my personal opinion, fleshing out the characters is by far the best thing you can do to make a story epic. That's because when they get into "epic" situations, you feel like you're in their shoes. The situation can be as expansive as it gets, but it won't "feel" epic unless the story is character driven.

As a side effect of detailed characters, you will have the emotional issues such as betrayal, love and hate that make it interesting.

Quote from: Gimmy TILBERT
Detail character in epic situation should not react in predictable way, yet be logic and consistent. If you have insanely great character but the girl with the staff is doing magic and will sacrifice herself for a greater good mis point, the grumpy guy warm other the course of action and the green haired girl switch/betray her camp, you loose everything you had build up.

The reason they must be detail is to open backdoor to interesting behavior, put an interesting stake on their head sometimes is better than giving them overdetailed background and psychology "just because". Great character and great situation are all about conflicting stake both personal than external.

What if the main character must birth the god of salvation in a world broke beyond repair but can only do so by mating with a girl he don't like at all, knowing that if he mate without love its the god of destruction that will be born? You have social pressure, psychological pressure, relationship pressure, moral pressure and ultimately a seemingly unsolvable solution, exploring the problem is worth a thousand story with a thousand character because they will all react differently and the event that lead to a solution or any conclusion have a great chance to be interesting.

Make it Genuine
Quote from: Hangedman
Just make it either well written in general or make the characters interesting.

There's no magic formula, just make it have genuine impact on people instead of making it so high fantasy you lose contact with the audience.
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