anime r not cartons u moran!!!! ^_^  T_T XDDDDDDDDDDDD desu

*sigh*

Yeah, I guess this argument has run its course. I actually swore to myself I'd never get into a "what is art" debate when I joined TIGS.  :D

I'd just like to say that while I wasn't deeply moved by Passage but I had a more direct emotional response to it than most other simplistic games with crummy lo-res graphics I've played.

On another note, I think someone mentioned increpare's Brain Damage. Now that game is fucking traumatizing! I had to quit it before finishing (despite it allegedly being rather short).

But I don't think not bothering with the graphical aspect of it is the way to go.

It might not be the way to go, but it's one. What I don't like about your attitude is that you seemingly can't accept pluralism. There's plenty of indie and some non-indie games that innovate in terms of graphics, sound and gameplay in many different ways. For instance, I haven't seen Aquaria's paperdoll style in any other game, nor was there a game that not only included quality electronic music but also made it a fundamental part of the experience (basically subordinating graphics to sound) before Rez. And Passage, well, did something new in terms of getting emotional content across largely via game mechanics.

What I'm trying to say is that there's a number of different approaches and taking a conservative "this is how it should be done" stance is something that just rubs me the wrong way.

The Wiimote + Nunchuck has more than enough buttons anyway. I don't get why so many games include the wiggling as the equivalent of a button press. 

Contemporary Mario games don't exactly (aim to) have realistic physics or movement either though, that's more what I was talking about. Elaborate doesn't always equal good.

Don't give up Melly! This game just has to happen! :D

Awesome! Already played a bit, enjoyed it. Will play more later this evening (it's 7PM where I live).

Also, just for the record, I'm not Claudia Sinclair, that's my mom. I still don't have my own credit card.  :D 

The reason doesn't always have to be "sucking at it". It could mean the work is simply not about whatever was "left out". It's a bit like criticizing Mario for not having complex, realistic physics and movement.

Kobel: Don't you see something scary about this? How is it progress if you go back to what was considered a failure in the past, saying ' this is a technique, it's not a fuck-up, it's a style, you cannot say it's repulsive/or a failure'?

Sure you can say it looks like shit, but it can't be a failure if the person who made it intended it exactly like that.
Also re poor shading etc: If you know a bit about art (I myself am a bit of a layman when it comes to visual art, to be honest), you can usually tell whether someone attempted something and fucked up or didn't even try it.

Graphics are super cute! 

Surprisingly enough, I got 20 Euros today from someone who apparently still owed them to me (which I had forgotten of course  :D), 13 (which equals $20) of which I'll immediately put to good use and donate.

Can't wait to play the beta.

edit: DONAT'D! 

If all of this intentional, this game is pure genius. Not only does it fuck with you, it's also surprisingly fun taken "at face value".

Exactly.

On another note, why are people so obsessed with denying something the status of "art"? Also, why do these same people always use the word "art" in a way that implies quality (or better put their personal understanding of it)? I think that's an incredibly arrogant and not very constructive sort of attitude.

Goes to show I'm not that well aware of (home) computer gaming. I was always more of a console person which may have something to do with the fact that my family didn't get a PC until something like 02/03.  :D

Anyway, I'm still really astonished by Brataccas. There's a kind of refined aesthetic sensibility going on that you wouldn't expect to see in a game from the 80s. I might have to download some emulator and try it. 

I agree with most of your points, but I still find all the hate Rohrer gets around here a bit unwarranted. Also, from the interviews I've read, Jon Blow comes off as pretentious and full of himself.

That Brataccas game looks interesting. Also, I never knew Roger Dean designed a video game cover. Great stuff, Derek. 

When I brought up the whole interestingness thing, I was referring to how an uninformed outsider (in this case the average NYT reader) may perceive it.
Personally, I've enjoyed Spelunky a great deal more than any art game I've played, which isn't to say I don't like or enjoy art games. I'd like to think I'm open for most types of games.

yeah people never really steal your resources.

That plus if people really wanted to, they could just rip your resources from screenshots anyway, or record them from the sound card if we're talking about audio.

The only thing I had external for my game Pinknoise was the music. I kinda enjoy doing most stuff in GM itself (which includes the graphics in the case of Pinknoise) rather than switching programs all the time. But if it's really as much of an advantage as Paul says I might consider for the game I'm currently developing.

Kraftwerk- Radioaktivität

I bought the "Der Katalog" box set a couple days ago. It was well worth it.  :D

I hope it's an Mpreg Yaoi Furry.