[to Create]

i'm late so i will try harder to look a least clever (clear throat)

to Create tap into the obscure
to Design tap into the science
to Communicate tap into the common

And to make is to headache all 3 toward your hand

...

 

[paraphrase:]

It is certainly the most high budget indie game out there  

However i have meet David CAGE in person and what he says that the game is not gear toward GAMER, he want the game to be accessible for people who are not into game, their culture and their clichés.  

That's were i raise eyebrow, i have no problem with that goal but... wrong console, wrong interface abstraction, wrong control scheme

But where most complain from people was is "Why the game should look so realistic? you can be expressive without that graphical power"

paraphrase:
But it had to be realistic because people want something they can recognize and believe in...

I like it.

I like how understated it is, just a plank against a balloon. If I saw it in an art gallery, I would laugh at the absurdity. So it'd be doing what I feel a good installation should do. Turn the whole gallery into a piece of art just through its being there, and being out of place, and being cack-handed and rushed and yet still treated as important. If I saw it in someone's house, though, I'd think it was stupid, that it was trite or maybe just trash.

It all depends on context, really. What doesn't work in a picture on the internet can work somewhere else. 

Of course, it's probably just shit. Most things are.

There is one problem through...

It was not clear if we were assuming the art was the plank against the balloon or the photo of it... i thought it was the photo of it 

That raise the problem of the framing of perception, identification vs identity and threaten the mold of reality itself 

Customisation is not necesserly the Graal to create attachement, relationship is i think...
Make the player important not only in their character survival but their growth as "character" and toss conflicting stake. Here is some silly exemple, if you use one particular character too much it may impact his relationship with his wife and may drive him bad, but of course he is a crucial element in fight, Maybe that would involve an event where you take a risky decision to bring his wife near the battlefield putting her at risk but giving him a moral boost while it put you in cold with another character... Event would be triggered according to their mental state and relationship evolution.

Of course that mean less unit and building a social system to balance with fight. Multiple stake keep pressure on the player as he must cover his character aspiration, need and fear VS being efficient on not only a battle but the entire war.

Well that wario stadium shortcut was game breaking bug, now all new mario kart have invisible wall and new "don't fall when jumped over a circuit track" unnatural "patch" because of that , never to mention don't "get too far from the circuit or else you are reset" with no clear limit.

THIS shortcut help you skip 1/4 of a really long circuit, becoming mandatory to take, you have to bump on the road limit at full speed on a specific point and angle and push jump at the moment of the collision, which was not easy... that and the famous jump over the circuit where there will be always someone who would use a lighting that made you fall and redo 1/4 of the circuit... I mean it was fun the 3 first times and became tedious pretty quickly...

Here is a sample take to the extrem:



It does the famous trick then use another one to skip the entire lap!
This qualify as exploit and glitch!

If you are not good enough for this there is still the ramp...
Look how the first trick is also the norm:




The infamous lightning on ramp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV47xOvXRpA&feature=related
For any depth the game have, it's all lost to glitch like that!

Now that's unfun!

[TROLL]

And what about the urinal? TROLL made art 


The whole story is that Duchamp submit a piece of art (crap?) he purchase an urinal to only sign it (R.Mutt), he was a member of the art admission of the museum and vigorously defend against the piece. Then in the art magazine "the new york Dadaist" an anonymous editorial written by him, entitled "The Richard Mutt Case", claim that this piece of art was the most important one for every art that would came after:

Whether Mr Mutt made the fountain with his own hands or not has no importance. He CHOSE it. He took an article of life, placed it so that its useful significance disappeared under the new title and point of view – created a new thought for that object.[7]

That's how ART was dead as a merit!
That's the origin of this kind of thread

Sorry i forgot the mandatory video:
the game feel much better to look at also
Texture hack permit character to pop up from the background
We replace sound and music also with hacks

What's all the Plus About? A Brawl+ Combo Video




Beast it Up - A Brawl+ Combo Video




You Must Tech! - A Brawl+ Combo video/compilation video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMr_7lCYMU8&feature=related

Starlight - A brawl+ combo video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfiDsnbVFVM&feature=related

[FAIR]

Remember in Mario Kart 64 you could take that shortcut on Wario Stadium? Regardless or not if you play Mario Kart seriously, next to everyone knew that trick and when someone would do it they'd completely ruin the race for everyone playing.

This is hardly a problem because you can simply make up a "house rule" that prevents the use of it. This is part of why I said I said I don't care about imbalance. It's so easy to introduce your own limitations that make the game balanced again. If you want to that is.

It only becomes a problem when you play online, but fighters are just about my least favorite genre for that.

I second that and there is competitive "house rule" in any hi level play in any fighting game.

I would also add that at mid level, things like ultra and any other impossible to pull move ARE the "wario stadium shortcut" of fighting game. It's not an option is mandatory to win. The difference between SF4 and SF alpha 2 is that i always have option to win in alpha 2 without having to resort to "super move" using my meter for counter... in SF4 (and many other game) i can dominate only to be break by a silly single move, only because i only play with people and never train alone  ...

Lemme poke the bee's nest again:  Another game that is an example of "not crunchy" is Smash.  It's a bunch of tiny stubby little characters with marshmallow heads hitting each other with way too many particle effects and background animation, the whole game is a cluttered pile of mess.  I like how in Brawl there is always a big bright P1/P2 over every character, because it is the only way I can tell where the hell my character is on the screen.

At least this FAIR, i can only say "i don't mind" it's not something i could argue against,  at least you don't hide behind a wall of non sense...
That's true that BRAWL is visual clutter!

The reason i keep arguing is that i'm interest in making a small fighting game someday, this kind of discussing sharpen idea and elements that are important...

I think Nintendo purposely made Smash Bros. Brawl unattractive for tourney play.

A common tactic in Melee battles was to dash left and right in one spot, so you could charge the other player unexpectedly. In Brawl, Nintendo added slipping and falling when making turns. This added an element of total randomness to the game, as well as crippling one of Melee's most common battle tactics. I find it difficult to believe Nintendo didn't expect and even desire this result.

-SirNiko

However this would have made brawl a carbon copy of melee, there is already melee for that, at least we end up with too game.

Regarding WAVEDANCING, it's a pretty advence play (rather than Technics) that is use to keep many more option open (rather than just dashin, i'm refering to the single stand frame which open for tilt or neutral hit rather that dash hit).
In term of gamedesign the tripping transform the run into "push your risk", and the offense came more for a breaking of habit rather than an major imbalance, there is top brawl (or melee) player that were not so reliant on dashing (especially when wavelanding and wavedashing were more efficient to move) see little effect in their playstyles... Of course if it was central to your playstyle, you have all the reason to be piss, but the game is no less competitive! You may not like it but there is no real design rational behind that except style! I think strange people does not attack brawl for his real flaws as there many "bugs" and real "exploits" that surely is more fair to bring (infinite chain combo anyone?)!


However community is reactive, brawl may be a mess but we can make it better:
ENTER BRAWL +

What is Brawl+?

Brawl+ is a project pioneered by the smash community with the intent to make Brawl a deeper, more balanced competitive fighter. The Brawl Plusery utilizes codes compiled within the Workshop Backroom to afford enhanced gameplay with features ranging from the removal of random tripping to the addition of more hitstun and new advanced techniques. Please view our changelist for a detailed view as to what has changed in the game.

http://brawlplus.net/changelist/

I don't understand why people try to argue the seriousness of game X versus game Y. Any game is seri-

Standard fighting games are centered around one on one fights, the game mechanics are where all the work goes towards, they're designed for competition.

Yes you can take any game seriously if you want to, but fighting games especially were designed solely for competition's sake.

Super Smash Bros. and Power Stone are the only two major exceptions I can think of, except Super Smash Bros. developed just such an insane fanbase that now most people playing it want to play it competitively, and have managed to exploit and break every little aspect of the game since not that much work was put into the game's core mechanics.

If you're going to make a fighting game, it should at least have structure.

Remember in Mario Kart 64 you could take that shortcut on Wario Stadium? Regardless or not if you play Mario Kart seriously, next to everyone knew that trick and when someone would do it they'd completely ruin the race for everyone playing.

[...]

your point about super smash is a good one, the instant accessibility of maneuvers moves the focus of the gameplay from tactics--how to move--to strategy--when and why to move. is this necessarily a good thing? or do those who spend more time with the game deserve the advantage that comes with understanding vs. not understanding the tactics?

[...]

As far as fighting games being focused on strategy over tactics, as in a real fight, I believe that a fighting game should be about fighting your opponent. But if you do not know how to play the game, you are no longer fighting your opponent, you are now fighting the interface and gameplay mechanics. What you described as a shift from tactics to strategy is actually how hardcore players play the game; learning how to play is just a prerequisite to that. Lowering that prerequisite would allow more players to become competent at playing the game. As long as the gameplay is adequately deep and chance elements are limited, there will always be a strong correlation between knowledge/skill and success.

[...]

Every fighting game have their "exploit" and their "bugs" that get "banned" from competitive play. If smash bros was so lighthearted why i did incorporate ALL advence feature of any respectable figthing game (power stone does not).

The fact is when you strip the game of the addition, it still play like any fighting game! You still need to care about hitstun, blockstun, priorities, recovering, frame reading, teching, perfect shielding (parrying), cancel, combo, super armor...
Brawl is even more interesting in that it allow you to create your game mode, and all can be play in competitive level because they have depth. An item is a game breaker you can turn it down, i can not see where complain come aside from taste ... Smash have enough flexibility to satisfy all RATIONAL argument, party game? fine you can even up the party nature, competitive game ? fine you can up it too, competitive + party game? you have it too! fed up of ring out? use stamina mode, augment gravity, create custom level. The game have structure, and it's flexible! What else? Oh yeah you can't remove pikachu what a pain! The real party game with huge install base does not spawn competitive scene, there is no power stone, naruto, dragon ball, jump super star competitive scene that have last 11 years as smash bros does! There is no mario party competitive scene either and the game dis sell, there is a point where a game can be play MORE than seriously... http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page smash bros is the only "party game" list on shoryuken : P

But in terms of figuring out a melody that carries a unique emotional "stamp" for a given situation, I'd say not a lot of that can be taught.

That's so true!

I can't believe how many people have Morrowind listed as their worst game.  Morrowind is one of the best RPGs I've ever played.

Oblivion, on the other hand, is my most disappointing game of all time.  Not the worst, but it's a huge step back from Morrowind in nearly everything that matters.

I don't know what my most hated game of all time is.

Add me for morror wind, massive side quest game could be cool if i didn't find the gameplay broken at his heart, Zelda NES provide the same feeling while being tighter (no grind, no dead npc, etc...).

But, this raises a small question to me; when using motion capture, isn't that TECHNICALLY acting? Just curious there.

Yeah, similar to acting and now computers are fast enough that character's textures use photographs to create the textures so it is pretty close to actually having a real actor.  If it wasn't for that valley....  I guess it wasnt meant to be haha.

We still have some problem with material (ie how light interact with skin) and skin deformation, but yeah we are pretty close!

BY THE WAY dragon's lair was not dead, it was just better integrate with gameplay, and shorter, and more meaningful (peak at god of war, resident evil 4, shenmue, ...).
But is it QTE or hyper contextual button mash with prompt? Guitar hero and any space channel five is also GOOD dragon's lair child!

@moi
Their idea seem slighty different however, it's more like a glorified visual novel with multiple choice except without dialogue box and in realtime ...

Maybe whoever created it did so in hopes it would spark THIS EXACT CONVERSATION.

their pretty good then.

It's a joke, a hoax. Like a the whole rickrolling shit, somebody got artrolled with a piece of "art" like this and wants to fight back now. It's all just a product of reallife internet spambots.

We should abandon the term 'trolls' and start calling them 'internet artists' then! : D

Edit: Or put trolling into the galleries, like screenshots of your latest trolling escapade. Actually I'm quite sure I could pull that off as an art piece. Oh life.

You could ... actually ... did you heard about rejection letter exposition? 

[...NOW!!]

Physics things are always cool- telekinesis and things like that. Being able to move your enemies around or move things at full speed into your enemies is always satisfying.

Don't know if that counts as a powerup or what.

Sure that could be a power-up although Second Sight by Free Radical proved it can be the single most boring power up I so wanted to like that game...

Play the mildly flaw FORCE UNLEASH ...

  ... on wii ... 

...NOW!!

Why bother trying to write a game engine, I can just use Game Maker

I'm taking (fake) offense in this one 
We want to make game not game engine  By the way better game engine does not make better game, you are referring to the 6 path and the point is to organize idea around structure not the other way around... The problem is that it's generally more down to generic taste and culture rather than technical understanding!


By the way there is comparaison about konji kondo tune (mario and zelda) also... (deep purple i think, there is whole video comparison on internet) >> Found! http://kidicarus222.blogspot.com/2008/08/legend-of-purple.html

I think good musician and especially those with absolute hear just have a super memory that store any song they heard.

Actually i have an interview with Yokko Kanno saying she had a lot of trouble with her absolute ear because she will remember every piece of crap she hear, even puny elevator one in supermarket. She said she doesn't like to go out to much to avoid her head to explode with that because it automatically reason about any music and song that meet her ears.

I'm not a musician myself, but i di experiment and spit some happy crap, i have one uncle who is musician and i use to play around as a kid when he composed music... Many year later in one of my crap there was the exact serie of note he compose years before, i didn't notice at first but was confuse when i did 

I don't think we should be so quick to cry for rip off (only if it's Matrix )

More fun with music similarities:
[skip the obvious or the vague part, especially from the same company/composer recycling]







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE5Ju3OSfSg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alZ7PQko_G8
(look at the related video side bar for even more fun)
Hell even Chrono trigger is not miss! OR ANY REFERENCE TOSS AROUND THIS POST! have fun or be upset  Hail to the mecanical milker of the muses!

@Supershigi: you are a truly incredible composer and you certainly stand out, i think you people should pay you more so you can have even better equipment. If i have a minor suggestion it would be that the song are little bit to "comfortable" for my ears, i don't really know how to say it, but with more subtle contrast in the rhythm or whatever to create little twist that surprise my ears it'll be from great to unbelievable. But hey i'm no musician 

I will take the challenge one day on this forum: one week one 3D game!

[two days]

Well we are discussing wether or not it is possible

In two days, the feature are like that in 3D:
Bumper
Enemy that chase you on sight
End of a level
basic plateform
wall running plateform
spike

Useless eye candy:
Big ugly flare
fake colored cast shadow
eye adaptation (when flare apear)
fresnel on the character to make it pop
camera that does not get stuck behind wall

Bonus:
Little mesh / animation viewer
small posing option (no save)
UNWrap tool for mesh
Bad UI

I can easily make level with the engine "as is" by using the heightmap and some multi texturing to create zelda PH like room and game.

The fact is that was not intended to be a full game, just a feasibility test!
After that test i spend more time researching advance thing to implement, the next goal is to do a mix of sonic, zelda 64 and mario 64 movement set, but not intended to be fun YET (learning process).

That's true there is little gameplay in this, but i could have done something under a week and having something pretty to show.

From what i have experience, 3d is easier because it is vectorial process and remove a lot of hassle with 2D stuff (sorting sprite depth, facing, animation, collision, no need for parallax, generally have free blending effect,  etc..) and is essentially the same to program (easy to constrain in one plan).

If i were to program the 2D game we had made we would have get a top down camera and more dynamic animation for FREE. 

I do not agree 3D... especially with something like BLITZ3D or UNITY3D, it's easier than 2D
I do not agree Physics... especially with UNITY3D, it's easier than 2D
I do agree networking because i haven't a clue

3D is a lot more complicated when making a game, unless you're using some 3D game creator that gives you no control over what you're making. When you're first starting, or trying to make a game quickly (in a week), 3D (and networking/physics) take a lot more time to do, and you end up with a crappy looking game because you didn't have time to make it fun, or look very good. When making fast prototypes you want to make a game that's enjoyable and really fun to play, not a 3D engine without any gameplay.


And, the presentation looks pretty good I felt you should try to avoid using "funner", but overall I liked it

I assume that everybody assume "from scratch" programming, in that case they are right, else they are deeply wrong.

If i want to make a game in one week i would take an environment who give me enough control without having the hassle of doing recurring common thing.

You can make pretty things without resorting to "modeling", composition and design trumps everything when it came to graphics. The cool news is that it is the less "hand skill" part in graphic to get, all you need is to get the basic principle.

My experience with something like blitz3D is that it's easier to come with something in 3D that look way better than 2D and in less time. when I started with blitz3D i had less problem than using Gamemaker.

Here is two day of work:




Ok the main character was a premade model i have find on internet
And the sky is an image from google image (was intended as a placeholder)

But actually it was so easy (one day to get basic plateforming working) i spent most of the time on graphical tweak. What did cost me time? an UNWRAP algorithm to paint the 3D model i had. And during the same time i have program a tool to visualize mesh that quicly turn into a prototype of an simple animation engine (i have to figure out how to save directly in the model rather in a separate file), and i have solve a big problem that plague 3D game: camera collision with the scenery.

And i'm new to programming!

Here my firt GML project to compare with (5 days and we were two):
sorry for the bad capture, i'm a noob 

What is the first lowest? I am thinking it is Youtube comment threads on videogame trailers.

Completely anonymous forum posts. You would think that would lead to some of the most honest criticism, but it just seems to make people big jerks.

I don't really get what you mean by "completely anonymous". Do you mean someone registering on a forum just to bash a particular game? 

4chan

I do not agree 3D... especially with something like BLITZ3D or UNITY3D, it's easier than 2D
I do not agree Physics... especially with UNITY3D, it's easier than 2D
I do agree networking because i haven't a clue