Nice 

This is pretty cool effect. I wonder if someone is actually making good games in Game Maker without coding?

Generally for a 'full game' your bound to run into some place where you need code. So some 'D&D' users, even when they make big games still use codes/scripts in places.

I heard The Power was made only with D&D, and that's pretty popular/gets nice reviews. But yeah, generally speaking one should get off D&D ASAP, and onto GML.

it also depends on how you run. we were made to run barefoot, not with shoes; people who run barefoot have none of the problems associated with running

They have a whole new slew of problems associated with running barefoot.

Yeah, but I've got a whole slew of problems from sitting on my butt all day coding. Can't win, really.

Jokes aside, I exercise daily, but not really any cardio work (running, skipping, etc). I run out of steam really quickly in that sense. Mostly I just swing on my pull up bar I've got in my room. Currently working on the one-arm pull-up, which is cutting big callouses into my hands.

Site sounds like an interesting idea (a good place to show-off, get motivated), not really for me, though. (head-phones are enough to get me pumped) I'd be interested in hearing back from a few members after a few weeks, to see if it helped them stay motivated.

Don't forget to call draw_clear(), or draw_clear_alpha(), after creating those surfaces.

Reference (read paul23, and xot's post)

Haha, it is crazy. At first I thought that it must be the Caster extention, but since the full works fine, that kinda squashed that theory. Now I'm just 

And cheers!  I'm not planning of going through 50 odd years of pain&suffering just to lose!

@Teegee:

I had originally tried V1.3.2, downloaded about the time you releasd the mac port.

It was V1.4 that wasn't working.

O.k. I downloaded the test (thanks for that!) and it still didn't work.. same crash. (And because you removed the loading bar, I can't even guess what it's crashing on. :p )

BUT, I started doing some 'research'.. I hate giving bug reports without trying to figure out the reason why. That didn't get that far, and I ended up in the program files, so I tried the .exe again.. and it worked.

Several tests later, confirms it.. running Magi 1.4 demo (both from the website, and the test you provided) from my shortcut in the Start menu produces an 'unexpected error' for me, somewhere while loading.

I tried for both versions, and they both run if you try the .exe straight from program files

(win xp 32bit btw)


Now I have no idea what to think. I mean, previously Magi 1.3.2 worked fine with the shortcut, and other GM games did(Immortal Defense, Cute Knight).

...

okay, so I figured since it works, I'll buy it. So did that, installed and... it works fine. Shortcut, start menu, yep, runs fine from that.

Now I'm confused. And kinda annoyed, I don't like giving random&vague bug reports. Oh, well, hope they help in case of any other similar reports. If your curious, and want to get to the bottom of it, feel free to hit me up with more tests.

I feel bad about messing up your website comments with this sort of talk.. I was going to hit you up in an e-mail, but eh, this way's easier.

Downloaded 1.4, and I'm getting an 'unexpected error ' on loading. That uuusually means a big image for me (think anything larger than 1024x1024 basically). [although sometimes if you load a lot of .mp3's in game that fails it, too, but I know that isn't the case with Magi]. I'd assume it's your splash screen or something. :p

So like I said before, ya know my computer ain't great. Not sure what you'd like to do here, set up a link to buy the game for 1.3 would be cool. Even just paypal. :p Or if you'd want to play round a bit, to get it 'working' for people with, uh, old computers then yeah, I can keep redownloading the demo &test for ya.


(And from a GM side, I assume this was built in GM7, or GM8. In GM8.1, even quite large images work fine.. I haven't tested it extensively, but I've gone over 2048x2048 and still run with GM8.1, (where as GM8 could only handle 1024x1024, and crashed when I increased to, say, 1500x1500 for e.g.)

I believe the reason is because what Mike Dailly outlines here:
http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showtopic=507302&view=findpost&p=3749392

Although he speaks as if it's in C++, rather than delphi runner... I'd assume that he must have implemented the same changes in the delphi runner.

I realize for someone coming from a GM background, construct's way of doing things might be a bit confusing, but as I understand it, events in construct basically ARE the scripting language.  The difference is you don't type most of it in, you pick conditions and actions from a list.  Being able to type in the commands wouldn't enable you to do anything extra that events don't let you do, because events have access to the full functionality of construct 2 already.

Events are quite powerful, once construct 2 catches up to construct classic you can basically make anything 2D with it.  In fact, events are so powerful you can even make your own 3D engine with them, as proved by quazi with mega thumb dream match.

You just have to think slightly differently when using it.  Instead of typing the command, you select it from a list.

That sounds exactly like GM's D&D. Maybe constructs events/commands are more extended than GM's D&D, but coding versus 'visual' programming.. can't compare them.

Check it out, yoyogames 'experimental' site:

http://experimental.yoyogames.com/

Read post by Mike here, explaining a bit about it (it's alpha, it's test, not finished, blah blah)

http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showtopic=517541&st=0

Hey Scirra team:

Your input is appreciated, thanks for taking the time to pop by! Best of luck with C2.

As suggested, I've changed the topic title, to suit the subject matter a bit better.
 

What on earth is "'monkey' compiled"?   

Haha, my made up term? It may be an official term, not sure. You code in monkey, then that exports it to whichever language is supported (C++, C#, Java, Javascript, and ActionScript, apparently)

Since it isn't written straight into that language, I'd expect there to be some un-optimized bits, etc.

Monkey I like. I downloaded it, and even though the BASIC like language is ghastly to get use to, you can't fault a freebie, and there are some nice little examples made with it, although nothing I'd call a decent game.

Yes...Monkey is powerful and better than GameMaker HTML5.!!! I notice that the HTML5 trial version of Monkey is free for non-commercial use!

I find these demo games in Monkey's forum. Flash versions are as fast as the HTML5 versions(Frame per Second)!!!!!! 

http://www.therevillsgames.com/monkey/invaders/invaders.html
http://www.therevillsgames.com/monkey/asteroids/
http://www.therevillsgames.com/monkey/platformer/
http://www.therevillsgames.com/monkey/monkeyDoc.html

Flash was typically faster than html5(for me). Also: I think that flash is 'monkey' compiled, which would make a big difference in speed.

All these examples are laggy for me. Someone needs to start making low-res web games for people with sucky computers!

Those construct demo's don't look too good. Got a 4fps on the TD one.

Monkey I like. I downloaded it, and even though the BASIC like language is ghastly to get use to, you can't fault a freebie, and there are some nice little examples made with it, although nothing I'd call a decent game.

GM's They Need to be fed is a bit laggy for me. Same with Maddening. Both projects are said to be just GM projects dropped into HTML5 alpha, though, without being optimized for web, so hopefully we'll see some better performances in the next one. And yeah, GM's sound isn't fully working. Mike Dailly said he'll be fixing that tomorrow.

Code Monkey by Jonathan Coulton.

We need a monkey smilie

 

Wow.  YYG says the HTML5 version will be much more limited in capability than the already slow standard GM?  And they want to charge 200$ for the full product?  And 99$ in Beta?  I'm not buying it, Flashdevelop with Flixel/Flashpunk is FREE.

Earlier someone linked to monkeyercoder. Download the demo, and give it a try.. it's only 5mb or so, and no installer (just unzip, then open the monk). It looks a lot easier to get going than flashpunk was (I had to install flash dev, set all the settings correctly, etc, so that's a bit trickier if you have no exp with flahs)

Personally I would buy Game maker as soon as they get off their arses and fix the fucking screen tearing problem (I'm sure a competent programmer could fix that in an afternoon).
But no, they seem to be happy with that shit.

Mike Dailly said over here:

Resolutions, tearing etc. This is all caused by the way Game Maker handles full screen mode. The issue is that it doesn't actually do fullscreen mode. It simply scales the window into a large window, this means when changing res its changing windows desktop res and not a directx screen mode. This isn't nice because it means its not actually going into "exclusive" mode. This causes all kinds of issues from tearing to problems if the game exits badly. The next version will change the DirectX model, but its a massive job, so dont expect it in any point release.

If he says it's a massive job, then it is. (he recently did the font fix in a GM8.1 update)

- the publishing arrangement yoyo came up with to make money by publishing gm games for iphone, which tricks inexperienced game developers into giving away the publishing rights to their games to yoyo, and also takes a large percentage of the profits from the developer, more than pretty much any other engine asks (even the unreal engine only takes 25% from indies, not 50%). yoyo would have made so much more money by offering people a better deal, since he wouldn't have scared away the developers of the best GM games from the deal

Some of your points I've heard, and read the arguments back and forth on numerous times. So I'm not going to go there, it'll waste every one's time in general.

Just on this one, I have to pull you up on, since it's simply maliciously worded, and you know it.
1: Escape clause. So 'tricked' people can back out. Also, that 'exclusivity' is obviously negotiable.. Vertigogaming is selling their game, also, for the PC, while YYG's published.

2: Yoyogames does all the porting work. When you get GM studio with iOS exporter, thank the people who got published with YYG's while YYG's were working on it. Btw, don't give me the 'one click' solution, thing etc, that isn't the case at all.. go talk to TeeGee about GM8.1, and GM4mac, and how versions on different platforms can be quite buggy, and take a lot of work to get going.

3: Don't deliberately mix engine with publishing. Feel free to linking to a publisher's website, who take significantly less than a 50-50.

edit: And we've had this argument before.  Not sure if you can be bothered having it again, I'm not really keen.

Only other point in your post which caught my eye was the GM4MAC/boy overwork thing. Honestly never heard of that one (I'm not a mac-er, never kept up), could you link to the story?

Besides, the entire GM market doesn't ride on product sales alone - they could easily package and sell/distribute content like flexible, precoded GMK engines for game types, LIB files for functions related to certain genres, and flexible, but well-animated gamedev assets.

They had  topic discussing that over at the GMC. It really isn't a very practical idea at all. (If it was, we'd see a lot more 'commercial' GM engines around the place!)

@desert dog
*insert humor at publishers expense here*

However they should make their prog top tier BEFORE raising price

Yeah exactly. GM is fine for what it is but I'm certainly not paying 200 (or even 100) bux for a plugin for a program that doesn't have a default way to save resources externally and doesn't support any audio formats other than WAV and (I think) raw MIDI files natively, for instance.

Not sure what your saying here. GM certainly can save/load resources externally. It does require a bit of coding knowledge.

And dailly promised .ogg support! Not sure when it's coming, I'd have to guess at GMStudio.

Feel free to quote your own price for it.

@Gimmy: It's true that GM8.1 isn't massively different from GM8 (and is even causing hassle for some people with big projects, e.g. TeeGee) so how can they justify the price increase?
Well something that GM4Mac, and GM8.1 now have is.. active support. 2 guys,(I said their names already!) are regularly working on updates/bug fixes, even the odd feature added (GM now has an updater).

This is something that GM users have wanted for years.. generally, it's wait 2-3 years, then a 'stable' version will come out (maybe closely followed with a point version, with a few last minute fixes). And then we all complain, because little has changed!

Surprisingly for some, the grass isn't always greener, and this method means accidental bugs are introduced, and have to be ironed out, fixed, etc, and sometimes, lower priority bugs take longer to fix. Hence, frustration for people like TeeGee.

I'm also unsure if your referring to the $25-$40 increase, or the $199 price of the HTML5 exporter..! :p Which is what this topic is about!

[We’re making Game Maker potentially not just something for people who want to get into games but people who are already involved in making games and a higher price in someways helps people value the product.]

@Paul: Well, I'm not really a 'pre-yyg's guy, so won't comment on that. Just FYI, though, Mark Overmars is still on the YYG's team, and they actually released an iPhone game programmed by him (Super Snake?)

@desert Dog

I have nothing against you, but if yoyo was making a competant product that would attract more than just poor kid while keeping basic version free they would have more attention. Basically you pay for a product that does not allow allow you top tier work and all they do is have html5 support? If the product is not good enough no matter how many platform they target it's still desirable only for poor kid without demanding need and experimenter (screen tearing).

I'm a die hard GM-er, I'll slaughter all who speak ill of it! :p haha, nah, well technically, GM does very well for itself.. sure, it's got it's issues(screen tearing), which can be pretty frustrating for some users.. personally, it hasn't effect my own games.

Here's an 'old' quote from Sandy, on the pricing:

If we do HTML5 I can guarantee you that it’s a product. It’s not something for us to play with.

I’ve called it an addon as I want people to realise that it’s not an upgrade to Game Maker. We live with the legacy of this $25 product, I just want to try and help people understand as early as possible that it might not be another $25 product here. It won’t be thousands, it won’t even be hundreds.

We’re making Game Maker potentially not just something for people who want to get into games but people who are already involved in making games and a higher price in someways helps people value the product. Absolutely no decision has even been made as to whether we will do the product yet, never mind the pricing./

That may be some of the decision making that Paul's referring to. Basically, slap a higher price on it, and it's viewed with higher regard.

That sounds weird, but the same thing sounded weird when I read how $20 was the 'best' price to sell your indie/casual game on the web.. if you charge only a few dollars for it, people viewed it with less value. It's weird, and logical at the same time.

Regardless, GameMaker's reputation as a hobbyists tool/learning tool has effected some independant users, e.g. Nick Larin, (scream681) said that after he presented his game DarkVerse on GDC, he was contacted by 3 publishers, all of whom lost interest once they heard the game was made with GM. (source)

It would be too easy for them to claim piracy is one of the reasons they don't turn a profit. Sure I know people who pirated it, but I know 10x as many people who own it. Most use old versions however. Because there is hardly any reason to purchase the new versions.

it's not hard to see why they haven't been able to turn a profit. They had a good solid product, and refused to build upon it. why buy the new version when it is more expensive and offers little more than the older versions?

You just linked to an article talking about the dread of poor children with no money, who can't afford GM. Then you try to down play piracy as a non-issue.. wouldn't affect profits?

You may have missed the bit where virtually every GM version had free upgrades.

Also, GM8.1 was $25, Yoyogames allowed all the 'GM users' plenty of opportunity to nab it cheap, before they upped the price. It's nice and well to cry out about it being more expensive, thus can't upgrade/afford, but heck, only a few months ago it was $25.

They definitely do have a solid product, but I'm not sure what you mean by refusing to build upon it. Isn't html5, mac, studio, etc, building on it?
Or is there something else you had in mind?
Dailly did start a thread on the GMC, where people could request features for GM8.1, when it was in production.

---

My take on the kids thing. Look, $200 is a big chunk of money, and heck, even $100 is. But GM HTML5 is going to open up a door, or at least, create that door of opportunity. The kids can still work with the 'cheap' version of GM, and get good at it. When they're ready/have the ability to, they can go through that door towards more opportunities.

The 'better' GM gets, the better for everyone.. 'professional' GM users, hobbyists, and 'problem kids'. More platforms, more potentials, more opportunities.

Btw, here's a quote from Sandy

The most disappointing and embarrassing thing for me, for the Game Maker community over the last four years, has been our inability to fix bugs, get out updates, add small features and incremental steps. You had to wait two years to go from Game Maker 7 to Game Maker 8 and if you have to wait again for Game Maker 9 you’ll of waited two years until the time you get it.

This is happening now, with GM8.1, we're getting bug fixes, we're getting small feature updates.. They aren't refusing to do anything, they couldn't do anything. Until they hired Dailly&kay. :D

@Paul: Not sure if your analogy really does it for me, although I do get what your saying. It IS natural, and perfectly fine for customers to make demands, etc, but there comes a point where other factors (like company well-being) comes into play.

@allen:

Interesting link. I'm going to state now that I'm not being 'overly' antagonistic, I mean, I relate to many of the sentiments in that article. However, there's an underlying selfish attitude throughout that entire thread.

It was always about me, us, me, poor kids, me, poor kids. So what about the people behind GM?

GM6 was the last version Mark Overmars was going to do. It simply wouldn't have gone any further. Mark nearly sold it to Atari. Think on that for a bit.

GM7-GM8- GM8.1-GM4MAc, and now, GM html5 simple wouldn't exist without Yoyogames.

Fun fact: Yoyogames haven't turned a profit since they started.
Another fun fact: Sandy Duncan, Yoyogames CEO hasn't drawn a salary for 5 years.

Yet another fun fact: GM has been heavily pirated. I bet you know a 'GM user' who has a pirated copy of GM. I know I know of some.

Yet another fun fact: anyone who purchased GM5 got a free upgrade to GM6, and GM5-6 users in turn got a free upgrade to GM7. GM7 got a free upgrade to GM8 if they purchased within, I think 6 months? Of GM8's release. GM8 users got a free upgrade to GM8.1. Lucky for poor kids!

You begin to see where money may be a problem? Apparently, having a target audience of poor kids who can't pay out money means you don't get much money! You get pirated! 

GM8 lite can still be downloaded and used. That doesn't have a 'tv logo'. GM8.1 lite has more features than GM8 lite, like image rotation.

I think the most exciting thing behind GM, or Yoyogames is their (newish) programmer Mike Dailly(and russel kay..). He frequences the GameMaker community, supplying technical insight on GM, or on Yoyogames. He started a sub-forum just to get user feedback on GM8.1:
http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showforum=85

And he&kay are spilling out GM8.1 bug-fixes pretty darn fast.

The TV logo was actually a GM user suggestion.

Just sayin', Turbo Run is looking pretty promising.

That's some sweet stuff right there. Turbo Run. I have to remember that name.