I also like SSB's launching finish blast the character off the stage attacks (and the power-pellet collecting thing), but then the game would be seen as too closely mimicking SSB (and even if we knocked the ball out of the park I doubt we could ever live up to the polish of SSB, and the comparisons would inevitably arise.)

If we could come up with something just as novel and cool as SSB's knocking the enemy off the screen thing I'd be all for that.

EDIT: Also it'd make an interesting and satisfying end to any match.

I think the Sun Temple, a bit of dry land in the veil, or the sunken city would all be good choices.

Sweet work Oracle :D

Disagree!
But then, I'm actively working to get this as much like a platformer as I can, so I think it's pretty obvious what I want.

Lol, it's fine. How would you suggest we implement a blocking system? I guess pressing down, maybe? Hmm...

I was thinking about this the other day...

Co-op games are a dying breed. Most recent popular games don't have co-op, and if they do, it's only online. Whatever happened to inviting a friend over to play Contra or Double Dragon?

Which brings me to my idea: A game that is designed exclusively for co-op. It would be kind of like Ikaruga, with polarities and all, except instead of being able to switch between polarites, you're always positive, and your friend is always negative (or vice-versa). You would have to rely on each other to fight enemies.

Not sure what kind of game it would be, but I'm partial to run-and-gun platformers, i.e. Gunstar Heroes. I guess it could be a shump too, but I'm not a huge fan of those.

The Halo series, Super Mario Galaxies, Rock Band, Trauma Center Second Opinion and Super Smash Bros. Brawl all have co-op. I think it's on the rise, actually.

Back is a direction relative to another entity, which means the player will automatically face on the enemy?

That's what I'm thinking. Otherwise you'd need a block button.

@Jimbob,

Let's save character types and gameplay until we know what kind of gameplay we're going to work towards and what characters we're going to use. Otherwise it gets really confusing trying to keep track of everything.

To answer an earlier question, yes, you get three votes for stages and three votes for music for six total.

Ok, here's what I'm thinking (for single button+d-pad controls.)

We use the tap/press system like fish suggested for offensive moves and combos. Adding in direction+button pressing activates stronger moves, special moves and the like depending on the situation (E+___= strong punch, S+___=down-special, etc.) Defense is handled by pressing back, and we include:

- B is guard, and we make guard only last 3-4 hits before it breaks or disappears.
- B+L is a backwards defensive dash. Very short in range, you take 1/3 the damage you would normally take, and you cann't be stunned (unless by a super.)
- B+R is a counter-tackle. So, you're blocking and then hit the R button and go into a tackle. If you time it right when the enemy is in their recovery period from an attack, you'll tackle them and knock them horizontally to the edge of the screen (check Ciel's 3-hit punch at 0:38 in this vid for an example.) A counter-tackle followed by a ranged attack or dash/run can lead into a corner air-juggle, though it'd be hard to get your timing right.
- B+A starts a special drive. While the drive is activated the controls for the character change, allowing for specials, supers, and shield breaks. And, let's say special drive lasts about one second. Or B+A and a direction will create supers.

So we have blocking, jump, double-jump, back-dash, defense dash, tackle-counters, parry and reverse parry. And to add even more defensive strategy, we could allow parries and reverse parries to be used while a player is in a combo, only after a certain number of hits in the chain have connected, and make it harder to time than normal parries. That should be more than enough defense, and if it's standard for all characters then we can go the GGXX route of characters who are all broken, but in their own special way. And so long as no character's offensive capabilities supercede the defense rules the game will be less broken than it could be.

So it's similar to SSB in it's simplicity, but with a bit of timing and learning you can use a wealth of techniques and skills.


EDIT: You guys should post these suggestions in the gameplay thread, since a lot of people started voting for 2-3 button controls: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=937.0

EDITEDIT: Just realized a problem with the counter-tackle, you can't block and hit right at the same time ^_^;; Maybe an even tighter timed parry like in Soul Calibur with red parry's?

Yeah, that's what I suggested one or two pages back, but a couple people commented that they'd rather it be more than one button.

However, seeing more people are voting for the single-button controls I'm more than inclined to move the project in that direction ^_^

@hamster
Your help would be greatly appreciated, but we probably won't be able to start anything until we have all that we want down on paper.

 :D Hehe, my votes go to fish on the chiptune suggestion as I'm hardcore into it too! Though, I don't know any game chiptune musicians (just the 8-bit people.)

I can't think of any better explanation that button-masher. I guess saying mindless is a bit extreme. I meant to say that in Smash the strategy is less based on memorizing the flow of combat, and more on split-second decisions.

[Subjects:]

This is a thread for voting on stages and music for the Indie Brawl game.

Rules:
Everyone has three votes for whatever stages and songs they feel would be best for Indie Brawl per subject. You may also make your own suggestions and vote on them. Voting ends at midnight December 12th (CST).

Subjects:

Stages-

The Land of Ex-Girlfriends (from Superemogame) –Ixis
Path defender –Melly
Cube Sector (from Lyle in Cube Sector) –Melly
Outer Wall and The Core (from Cave Story) –melly
Hell and The Egg Zone (from Cave Story) –ixis
Floating Island (from Fez) –melly
Death Worm Desert (from Death Worm) –pita, ixis, gummikana
The trippiest room in Introspect -shoot-em-up
Orisnal (from Orisnal) -Ixis

Music-

No clue, so suggest away!  :D

[Subjects:]

This is a thread for voting on characters, hidden-characters and bosses for the Indie Brawl game.

Rules:
Everyone has three votes for whatever characters they feel would be best for Indie Brawl per subject. You may also make your own suggestions and vote on them. Voting ends at midnight December 12th (CST).

Subjects:

Characters-

It's a huge list, so use Ctrl+F and see if your suggestion is in there first.

Ogmo (from the Jumper games) -Terry
Lemeza (from La Mulana) -Terry
Gish (from Gish) –Terry, fish
Quote (from Cave Story) –Terry, fish, ixis, scaldicpoet9, oracle
Mickey R. Dole (aka. The Attractor, from Clean Asia) -Terry
Thor (from God of Thunder) -Terry
Juni (from Knytt Stories) –Terry, fish, ixis
Harry Flowerpower (from Banana Nababa) -Terry
Talan (from A Blurred Line) -Terry
Nikujin guy (from Nikujin) –Terry, pita
Kitty (from Game with a Kitty) -Terry
Varicella (unknown) – Terry, pacian
Lyle (from Lyle in Cube Sector) – NaYoN, ixis, stij, moi, sergiocornaga
Ball (from Within a Deep Forest) –NaYoN, pigbuster
Kyntt (from Knytt) –NaYoN
N (from N) –NaYoN, fish, stij, pita
Gomez (from Fez) –fish, ixis, higgins
Alien Homonid (from Alien Homonid) –fish
Naija (from Aquaria) –fish, ixis, melly, oracle
Tim (from Braid) –fish
Turner (from Lugaru) –Golds, ixis
Beethro Budkin (from DROD) –tr00jg
Wik (from Wik the Fable of Souls) –tr00jg
Snood (from Snood) –Golds
Sam (from The New Satan Sam) –Stij
Ip (from The Underside) –Ixis
Haikaiman (from Haikaiman) –Stij
Clone (from Cortex Command) –Stij
Dwarf (from Dwarf Fortress) –stij
Akuji (from Akuji the Demon) –ixis, oracle
Red Knight (from Castle Crashers) –stij
Poyo (from Poyo) –Agh
Trillby (from 5 Days a Stranger) –mjau, ixis
John DeFor (from 5 Days a Stranger) –mjau
The Deer (from Endless Forest) –higgins
Soldat Dudes (from Soldat) –higgins
K? (from Path Defender) –Melly
Chick (from Boobza Sport) –moi
Noitu Love (from Noitu Love) –moi, ixis, AdamAtomic, scaldicpoet9, pita
banana nababa (from Banana Nababa) –moi
The samurai armor (from Iwanaga) -moi
Gamma Brothers (from Gamma Brothers) –moi
Hickbilly (from hickbilly bride) –moi
Alicia (from Heart Forth Alicia) –ixis
Mia (from Eternal Daughter) –ixis
Samorost (from Samorost) –rey-o
Eets (from Eets) -stij
Mr. Robot (from ) –stij
A Fighter (from Toribash) –stij
One of the Blocks from Accelematrix (Accelematrix) –pigbuster
Colored Gems (from Random Color Matching Games) –derek
Ikiki (from ) –gainsworthy
Allergic Pig or his Monster fiend (from ) -gainsworthy
RunMan or his Monster fiend (from ) -gainsworthy
Sumo (from Sumotori Dreams) -gainsworthy
the Pink Dude (from Blokketiblok) -gainsworthy
Cyber Dogs (from ) –Radnom
Stinkoman (from Stinkoman 20X6) –ixis
Guy Balding (from Balding’s Quest) –Jimbob, ixis, BMcC, siiseli
Galatea (from ) –pacian
Daisy Dash (from Diner Dash) –moi
Xoda Rap (from ) –konjak
Reimu (from Touhou) –melly
Victor (from Cedric and the Revolution) –Pita
Victor AND Cedric (from see above) –ixis
main character (from Ark22) –Javet, .TakaM
Lohn (from Sunset Over Imdahl) -Javet
the Silver Knights (from ) -Javet
Wilfred the Hero (from Wilfred the Hero) -Javet
Mr. Blocko (from Mr. Blocko?) -Javet
the Ragdoll/Spector (from Truck/Stair Dismount) –Javet, Alevice, sergiocornaga
Ninjah (from ) –Javet
Fangame Mario (from Fangame Mario) –sergiocornaga
Mario Inna Space (from ) –NaYoN
Stick Duelist (from TIG Duels) –shoot-em-upper, random, frodo091
Gabriel (from Introspect) -shoot-em-up

Hidden-Characters-

Sexy Hiker (from Sexy Hiking) -alec
Pig with tophat (from ) -alec
Chainsaw Gomez (from not-Fez) –ixis, fish?

Bosses-

Sam (from Serious Sam I Am) –ixis
Frog Idol (from Zuma) –pigbuster
A Match 3 game () –stij, melly
Battleships (from Battleships Forever) –melly
N Level (from N) –melly, ixis
The Hand of Yu (from …) -melly

Summons-

Everything listed above and...

Darwinians (from Darwinia) -Terry
Boonies (from Badlands/Gish2) –Nikica
Death Worm (from Death Worm?) –stij, gummikama, oracle, ixis, pita
Heroine from Chalk (from Chalk) –AdamAtomic
Lori (from Noitu Love) –AdamAtomic
Reiko (from Rose and Camellia) –mjau, ixis, derek
Hermies (from ) –moi
Makibishi (from ) –sharksweetheart
SHMUP Storm (from Various) –derek, ixis, stij

[Subjects:]

This is a thread for voting on the gameplay mechanics for the Indie Brawl game.

Rules:
Everyone has one vote for whatever gameplay mechanic they feel would be best for Indie Brawl per subject. You may also make your own suggestions and vote on them. Voting ends at midnight December 12th (CST).

Subjects:

Structure-Traditional fighter (Street Fighter, KoF, GG, Soul Calibur, DoA, etc) or Non-Traditional (Power Stone, Super Smash Bros., Jump! Superstars, One Piece: Grand Adventure, etc.)

Traditional 2d fighters are based around tight controls, timing, war of space and memorization.
Non-Traditional fighters are based around intuitive controls, items, multi-tiered interactive environments and control of space and resources.

Control- 3-buttons, 2-buttons, 1-button controls.

3-buttons: Attack, Special/Sub-attack and Guard
2-buttons: Special/Sub/Normal-attack and Guard
1-button: Attack (block/special/sub attacks handled by different means.)

Combat- Timing or button-mashing

 :D Sorry, been busy with Mass Effect, lol!

Yeah, for the most part I've seen people suggest the game be easy to play and intuitive, but not a mindless button masher like Smash Bros. (... can be at times.) Plus, it's a lot more fun for newbies. Having non-standard fighting game maps (like the ones in Power Stone, SSB and Jump Superstars, with interactive environments and items) seems to be popular as well.

I think for the sake of organization and getting stuff done quickly let's start the voting and get everything down solid, then move on to development. I'll make some threads in the community projects board. The polls will be open for, let's say a week and a half (so voting ends the 12th of December.) This will allow enough time for people who don't visit every day to have a chance. Voting threads will be on "gameplay mechanics", "main characters, hidden characters and bosses" and "stages and music".

You'll have three votes to use for every subject, and at the end the articles with the highest votes will win. I'm going to include the votes from this thread as well, but if you made any suggestions or votes (in this thread) they won't be counted towards your three vote total.

EDIT: You can also make new suggestions and vote on those in the threads.

Sorry about the directions thing. If you've read guides and stuff online for fighting games they use NSEW or UDLR.

As for the block, by not pressing anything you could block mid and high attacks, but you'd still be open to low attacks, which could lead into launches and air-juggles (both harder to defend then a normal combo.) This way the gamers are more offensive and looking for gaps in their opponents combos when a counter could be used.

I would vote for including another button, but any more than that and I'd be afraid the game wouldn't be as pick up and playable.

@sega
I don't think anyone decided on 1v1 or 2v2 yet, but I assumed it would be 1v1 for the sake of simplicity. And I do think balance is an issue. So, I'm thinking a secondary block button would be the way to go, and then open a myriad of ways that players can defend that's standard for all the characters (like GGXX.)

@Inane
I agree attacks should be modified with keys. But I think we should get the basics down first before going into attacks and combos (like what Alec was saying.) Though, I was thinking about Naija's attacks on my own and thought about a beast-form tackle, heh.

Ok, so lets say we have two buttons. One for attack (A) and one for defend (B), these aren't their actual key-flags, just letters that could represent buttons one day.

Same controls as before, but we add...

- B is guard, and we make guard only last 3-4 hits before it breaks or disappears.
- B+L is a backwards defensive dash. Very short in range, you take 1/3 the damage you would normally take, and you cann't be stunned (unless by a super.)
- B+R is a counter-tackle. So, you're blocking and then hit the R button and go into a tackle. If you time it right when the enemy is in their recovery period from an attack, you'll tackle them and knock them horizontally to the edge of the screen (check Ciel's 3-hit punch at 0:38 in this vid for an example.) A counter-tackle followed by a ranged attack or dash/run can lead into a corner air-juggle, though it'd be hard to get your timing right.
- B+A starts a special drive. While the drive is activated the controls for the character change, allowing for specials, supers, and shield breaks. And, let's say special drive lasts about one second. Or B+A and a direction will create supers.

So we have blocking, jump, double-jump, back-dash, defense dash, tackle-counters, parry and reverse parry. And to add even more defensive strategy, we could allow parries and reverse parries to be used while a player is in a combo, only after a certain number of hits in the chain have connected, and make it harder to time than normal parries. That should be more than enough defense, and if it's standard for all characters then we can go the GGXX route of characters who are all broken, but in their own special way. And so long as no character's offensive capabilities supercede the defense rules the game will be less broken than it could be.

EDIT:


Anyway, during my greasy attempt at stealing/controlling the development of Indie Brawler, I thought up a possible combat system I think is pretty interesting that uses only one action button and 4-directional buttons (so far.)

Key (using fighting game jargon):
N,S,E,W - the 4 directions, assuming the player is facing right.
A - the only button
, - indicates a succesion of pressing buttons, for example A,A would mean pushing the A button twice.
+ - indicates pressing two buttons at the same time, i.e. E+A

-Movement: E or W will make the character walk left or right
-Dash/Run: E,E or W,W will make the character dash or run (depending on the character.) Hold down the second E to make the character continue to run.
-Jump: N
-Double-Jump: N,N
-Block: W or nothing (this is borrowed from Naruto: Ninja Taisen/Great Ninja War. By holding back, or not pressing anything the character will block attacks from the front. However there is a block meter that slowly goes down before it breaks.)
-Parry: E+A when pressed right when the character is about to get hit will cause the character to parry the other characters attack. A parried character will be stunned for a second.
-Reverse Parry: W+A same as the parry, but with a pushback effect (great for characters with ranged attacks, like Quote most likely.)

I'll get into attacks and comboes later.

Ok, it's 3:17am here lol!

Here's the rough design document. Nothing is set in stone, especially since this is a forum full of game designers I didn't want to go and make a whole bunch of decisions, so feel free to edit/delete/comment/question/whatever any and everything in the document.

I'll finish patching it up and stuff tomorrow.

Did he just say 'making fuck berzerker'?