Very insightful posts. Here are my brief responses.
My biggest issue is with what I feel is a lack of 'normals' -- just simple, basic melee attacks altogether. I know most characters in this game don't normally have these, but if you want to enhance the actual fighting aspect, there should probably be a few of these so that close combat is a bit more interesting.
Most characters have a number of close-combat attacks. Characters with a ranged emphasis, such as Liero, do not, though. They don't need a lot of melee attacks since they shouldn't be spending as much time in close combat. It's worth noting that, of the currently completed characters, there's is an unusually high number of ranged attackers, compared to what the finished game will be like.
- Most characters' second jumps seem way too low. This seems to be more of a problem simply because characters are so short and stages aren't very tall, and it might be more of a non issue in the long run.
I've found that most characters can jump more than high enough. I may reduce the height of their initial jump and boost the height of their second jump, though.
- HP before you start FLYING with everything is a bit... low?
Possibly. I can increase character durability a bit.
I have the most reservations about her altogether.
She has not been heavily playtested yet, so there will still certainly be issues.
- Shotgun start up is too slow -- it's too close to the rest of the weapons. Should probably be faster.
Yes, it should.
- Shotgun reach is too short. Consider making the cone longer but have the same ending 'spread'.
I don't like this idea. Shotgun is supposed to fill the role of a melee attack, even though it is a projectile. I prefer to think of it as a melee move with good reach.
- Shotgun damage hitbox should start right on top of Iji. Right now it's a bit far in front of her.
Okay.
- And in the end, the Shotgun is too similar to the Shocksplinter even with changes. No reason not to use Shocksplinter instead.
The Shotgun fills the role of a slow melee attack with long reach. Shocksplinter is Iji's basic projectile. They have very different roles; they just need better balance.
- And in a lot of cases (whenever you're on the ground, for instance) there's no reason to use Shocksplinter when you can just hit the Plasma Cannon. I can't think of one, anyway.
This is probably true. I'll make the Shotgun faster and Plasma Cannon slower, so all three moves have more clearly-defined uses.
- Kick knockback is way too strong for a 'normal' attack. See issues with normals above. This is fine otherwise.
Maybe. I could reduce its cooldown and power, but I think the slower, more powerful kick fits the source material.
- Ground rocket is questionable... explosion isn't that big, damage is forgettable and uses are few. Could benefit from a bigger explosion.
From my own experiences, it's quite useful. One of my playtesters uses it more than any other move.
- Nuke is actually... fine as it is. Deals about the right amount of damage and does roughly what it should. I'd increase the upwards movement if choosing to go straight up.
I might do this. Nuke actually grants quite a lot of recovery, but due to the animation, it doesn't look like as much.
- v+S should probably be a separate move when done in the air instead of the Plasma Cannon.
Maybe. Do you have something in mind?
- Iji can't block.
I've been thinking about this issue for a while, and I'm strongly considering reintroducing guarding of some sort. Keep your eyes peeled for a new thread in the coming week.
- All in all, Iji feels like a really bad Liero.
Iji has less emphasis on ranged combat than Liero does, but she has the moves and durability to make a solid melee combatant. They just have different play styles.
I know I say I hate balancing down, but holy christ.
Initially, everyone seems to think that Liero is overpowered. And he is top-tier. But after playing with him for a while, you realize that he's not as powerful as he seems at first. He has the worst defense and mobility in the game, by a substantial margin, and there isn't much he can do if caught in a melee.
- Banana Bomb: ridiculous, HAELP. Is this necessary?
The move is
incredibly slow, and easily avoided after it's thrown. Plus, it can hurt yourself if you're not careful. It provides some excellent battlefield control, and gives you some unique options, but it's really not that effective for dealing damage (unless your opponent is stunned).
- Shotgun has... infinite reach? He probably doesn't need a weapon that good.
Well, Liero is the ranged specialist. It doesn't usually make a difference anyways, since stages aren't that large, and Doomsday rockets are more effective at long range.
- If v+A and >+A are going to be transformation attacks, I altogether expect up+A to be the attack that'll move me upwards.
This has been brought up before. And I absolutely agree. Naija is getting a new recovery move, inspired by Spirit Form, which should be implemented soon.
- I can't be the only one to notice that >+B -> A is really abusable?
I don't think anyone else has mentioned it, but yeah, that's incredibly cheap. I'll make sure I fix it, along with Trilby's other abusable combos.
Feels like another fairly complete character. I like the fact he can string attacks together relatively easily. I just wish Bonesaw wasn't automatic -- I want to activate this mode manually, not have it spring up on me all of a sudden when I get enough Bonesaw power, because I might not want it or may want to save it for another situation.
That is actually the way it worked originally. You entered Bonesaw mode by pressing vS once the meter was full. But people didn't realize this, so it went unused, except by experts.
I don't know why you wouldn't want Bonesaw mode anyways.
I wonder should there be a tourney style mode where 90% of the content of the game is strip for a street fighter clone right down to the circle + button moves, limited air control, and pallet swaps.
No. You're suggesting that we make a second game.
with that said joke characters in this type of game could be those from other tig related content like the characters from comic compo(2)
1) Making a character takes a lot of work, so character slots should be used for major indie game figures, not obscure community references.
2) There's no reason so-called joke characters can't be as effective as any others.
Iji's fine. For one, the kick is a relatively slow melee attack. Are you saying it should weaker than the equal-speed ranged attacks?
The kick actually comes out very quickly, but it has a long cool-down. Just a little nit-pick.
Iji has no real melee options except a kick to knock you back with. I'm saying it's actually kind of boring.
Her Resonance Detonator (^A) is a strong melee attack. Nuke (^S) may be a recovery, but it also acts as a slow, powerful melee attack. Shotgun (>A) and Rocket (vA) have a short enough range that they can be used like melee attacks. And Crack (>S), while certainly not a normal attack, is certainly a strong melee option.
Look at just about every fighting game in existence and you'll notice that just about every character's basic attack (to refer to SSB, look at everyone's standing normal attack) comes out very, very fast. Only a few characters have this in Indie Brawl.
I think just about every character has this, except Liero. Iji included. The kick animation looks powerful, but it comes out very quickly. I could reduce the cool-down a bit, I suppose.
Compare SSB where every character has 'tilt' moves which are all technically normal melee attacks -- four different kinds (stand, f-tilt, u-tilt, d-tilt) and three 'smash' attacks, which tend to be better melee attacks or have some interesting properties (u-smash, d-smash, f-smash). Let's not even go into the whole tons of different normals in the air...
Differentiating between tilts and smashes is impossible with keyboard control. Aerial moves do exist, though, to an extent. Many moves have different properties when used in the air.
The Shotgun is 'faster' in that the burst travels faster and therefore hits people in front of her faster. However, actual move startup is identical -- the amount of time for the move to actually do something from it being inputted.
The shotgun is slightly faster. But I agree. The difference is not nearly great enough, and there's very little reason to use the shotgun over the shocksplinter.
As for the Shocksplinter, it isn't a whole lot faster than the Plasma Cannon... actually, in the version I'm playing it looks like the Plasma Cannon's start up is actually faster by a frame or so.
The Shocksplinter has a slightly faster start-up, and a much faster cool-down, but again, I agree. Plasma Cannon should be slower.
In Death Worm Desert, if you jump up onto a platform from below in a certain way, you'll stay in your jumping sprite.
This isn't limited to the DWD, but the error is entirely visual. It's on my to-do list, but not very high on it.
Lol are you like my long lost brother or something? Jeez. When I used to post compulsively here three times an hour I also brought up a lot of the issues you're talking about. If you look back, back, into the pages of the pinned IB threads, you'll see me complaining about lack of a guard button, dominance of ranged attacks, and general unbalance.
Actually, I have been thinking a lot about reintroducing guarding. I'll start a topic about it soon.
I disagree about ranged attacks being overpowered, though. Some characters are ranged-focused, and obviously have great ranged attacks, but I don't think most ranged attacks are as powerful as you think they are.
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