Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1411512 Posts in 69376 Topics- by 58431 Members - Latest Member: Bohdan_Zoshchenko

April 27, 2024, 08:12:53 AM

Need hosting? Check out Digital Ocean
(more details in this thread)
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignSmash bros for fighting, mariokart for racer, what for fps?
Pages: 1 [2]
Print
Author Topic: Smash bros for fighting, mariokart for racer, what for fps?  (Read 4609 times)
gunmaggot
Guest
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2010, 06:17:07 PM »

He's kind of all over the place though, so I guess I just chimed in with a game in the genre which did things differently and had creative gameplay design - that's the only thing I could salvage from what he was saying.  
I don't think Smash Bros is particularly easy to get into when compared to other fighters - I mean, in the mid-long term it is, but not in the beginning.
If he meant 'what FPS is Nintendo-like', I retract Unreal Tournament - it's not really unless you're nutty enough to assign the 'Nintendo-like' label to anything with well designed gameplay, which is pretty hard to stomach.  
I did think of an example of UT-like gameplay in a Nintendo game:  I never played Metroid Prime Hunters but something I read about it struck me as being UT-like: one of the characters in multiplayer had a weapon that acts as a proximity mine when one is laid, a tripwire when two are laid, and when a third is laid, anything in the triangle gets vaped.
Logged
X3N
Level 6
*


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2010, 08:25:31 PM »

He's kind of all over the place though, so I guess I just chimed in with a game in the genre which did things differently and had creative gameplay design - that's the only thing I could salvage from what he was saying.  
I don't think Smash Bros is particularly easy to get into when compared to other fighters - I mean, in the mid-long term it is, but not in the beginning.
If he meant 'what FPS is Nintendo-like', I retract Unreal Tournament - it's not really unless you're nutty enough to assign the 'Nintendo-like' label to anything with well designed gameplay, which is pretty hard to stomach.  
I did think of an example of UT-like gameplay in a Nintendo game:  I never played Metroid Prime Hunters but something I read about it struck me as being UT-like: one of the characters in multiplayer had a weapon that acts as a proximity mine when one is laid, a tripwire when two are laid, and when a third is laid, anything in the triangle gets vaped.
Hm, I have the opposite view about smash.. the direction + A button I thought was really intuitive, then you have a jump button, special button and defensive button. Learning the medium/high level stuff was trickier.. combo timing, tech-chasing, z-cancelling your aerials consistantly. I hadn't really played any other fighters prior to that though, so I wasn't expecting Street Fighter etc going into it.

Have played MPH briefly, its a lot of fun.

Also, Descent? How about Forsaken  Cool
Logged

destiny is truth pre-op
gunmaggot
Guest
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2010, 08:57:42 PM »

Hm, I have the opposite view about smash.. the direction + A button I thought was really intuitive, then you have a jump button, special button and defensive button. Learning the medium/high level stuff was trickier.. combo timing, tech-chasing, z-cancelling your aerials consistantly. I hadn't really played any other fighters prior to that though, so I wasn't expecting Street Fighter etc going into it.

With Street Fighter/Tekken/Virtua Fighter etc. you can jump in and start mashing and you're going to get something you can sort of understand - punches, kicks etc.  You won't pull out any special moves except by accident, but you can fight ok.  It's even possible to get in a few lucky hits against experienced players, and everybody understands what a health bar means.  With SSB it's harder to get anything useful without a short briefing (ie. "press a direction + A button!"), but after that you're on your way.  That's why people who are new to the game will just spam their basic B attack, and love help you if you picked a character whose basic B attack doesn't have any knockback.  Moves in SSB are generally more intuitive than other fighters but there is a small initial hump.
Clearly learning the medium/high level stuff in SSB is trickier than learning the low level stuff in SSB, I don't know where you are going with that.

EDIT:  This is coming from a guy who hasn't played a whole lot of SSB, which basically makes me an expert.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 09:13:25 PM by gunmaggot » Logged
X3N
Level 6
*


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2010, 09:34:25 PM »

Quote
I don't think Smash Bros is particularly easy to get into when compared to other fighters - I mean, in the mid-long term it is, but not in the beginning.
That's why I mentioned that. I see what you mean about the punches/kicks / stuff happening though. I figured out fast that A moves were better than B in Smash but.. you're right, new players tend to over-use them since they're flashier / cooler.
Logged

destiny is truth pre-op
gimymblert
Level 10
*****


The archivest master, leader of all documents


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2010, 05:53:05 PM »

How to make a multiplayer game fun for people of different skill levels?
Hello

After debating on the FIGHTING GAME thread and reading this thread:
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=9408.0
I have tried to come with a concept that would be a canonical Nintendo like game, assuming the game would be on WII.


  • Accessibility: these game simplify the control and how to get in the game.
  • Preserve depth of the core mechanics: Those game remove the fat down to what matter.
  • Expension of core while keeping accessibility: drifting and snaking as exemple, in mariokart expend, the take a turn sharply.
  • Hazard: environmental hazard play a big role.
  • fair randomness: Random is never really random, and even smash bros choose items to spawn according to play styles and performance. As randomness act on predefine rule, it's easy to anticipate.
  • Pushing risk: Taking the lead is taking risk, risky maneuver is usually meet with satisfying pay off. Randomness as it follow rules encourage pushing risk (gambling appeal).
  • rubber band: the game has in built rules to keep everyone on toes, it use fair randomness as  part to achieving this.
  • skill counter: Whatever bad happen to you there is always a way to counter it or to minimize its effect. Even the awful wii blue shell can be deflect with a banana or a musroom in the correct time frame/positioning. It helps mitigate randomness
  • Favor adaptation skills over brute force: Dark room isolation training" still count but what make the difference is the capacity to assess situation and take advantage of it.
  • Combinatorial explosion: situation, core mechanics, basic movement, items, randomness, hazard, all combine with themselves and together to create an infinite set of situation. There is always something to discover or to create. Single mechanics can spawn entire strategy books (see "nade" for snake in SSBB). Eveything interacts with everything.
  • Gameplay realism: Reality is bend towards fun, using nintendo character just emphasis that.

Nintendo would do something BOLD move here. The problem with FPS is essentially that moving is hard for beginner, Moving and aiming is even worst. As the dichotomy between moving and aiming is important for tactical play (like the multiplayer mode of MODERN WARFARE show) the two would be actually separate!

Movement mode:
Basic movement would be like classic 3D zelda move, the player could dash but not jump, instead interaction with the environment would be contextual. Just like in zelda, Jump would be only available on edge at run or dash speed, climbing small height would be accessible by pushing the wall and using contextual key. The camera would focus on immediate surrounding and less on far sight. This would be handle with the NUNCHUCK STICK.
Action like picking/tossing objects/characters, opening doors, climbing, pushing/pulling big object, any interaction is handle by the contextual button, let say A on the wiimote.
Dashing (smashing the stick) + A would result dodge move.
The C button recenter the camera behind the character.
The B button is to use picked items. You can only have one item at a time.
Holding A will open a radial menu around the character that let the player aim to select an option.
Waggle of the wiimote result in a melee attack, with dashing the character smash everything in front of him.
Waggle with the nunchuk result in a "shine", a very quick shield that deflect projectile or guard melee attack. Think barrel roll or fox shine in smash bros. But it also stop the character for a moment. Sucessfully deflecting shot can result him to get back to his source.

Aim mode:
You enter aiming mode by pressing the aiming button and the character draw his weapon. It set the camera close behind the character head (like RE4 or crossbow training) and make the character crouch and strafe resulting in slower move. In aiming move the character also cannot go down cliff or interact with environment. AIMING would be VERY different than in typical FPS it would be more focus on direct aiming a point of the screen (Cross bow training, RE4 WII) and slow camera turning.
The A button allow direct control of the camera like in typical FPS but does not allow firing. Useful For quick adjustment.
The B button is to use to fire the weapon. You can charge it by holding B, it will widen the target reticule and lock an opponent (like in starfox 64) but the camera would not follow it, and if the locked character get outside of view, lock is loss.
The C button block the camera and allow to zoom according the weapon held. You can use the angle of the nunchuk to lean.
Waggle wiimote reload some weapon.
Waggle NUNCHUK result in using ballistic type weapon like grenade. It takes the angle from the wiimote when toss.

Most of these element favor intuitive control mode while giving increasing finesse on control. Every advance option come with a cost and help balance the game. Actually i have take inpiration in splinter cell pandora multiplayer mode, except here we can switch between spy and mercenary mode on a push of a button. A lot of control is also directly take from older nintendo game convention (zelda and starfox as exemple) to keep continuity with the nintendoverse and build on fan expectation.

The core of FPS is simple, moving to dodge hit, aim and fire target. Recent game already have trim lot of fat of early shooter, no more medic, weapon drop or huge weapon inventory to tighten the pace and keep focus the game on his core: killing!. Item in FPS ask to know the map and create choke point that beginner would not known and keep knowledgeable player having a huge hand over them. Modern warfare remove that by letting the player choose their weapon at the start and loot amno on dead body, creating dynamic placement of items, Like halo a limited amount of weapon can be held the same time, player have to choose within weapon that fall from dead body and exchange their weapon with. By always having weapon to loot it create opportunities. We should keep the one weapon at a time model.

Aiming and firing could be expand and twist in new sort. Think the flower of mario, or old shooter spread weapon, you may end with weapon having multiple non centered reticule instead of one.

Like mario kart. Environment also react to player interaction, for example freeing a CHOMP by meleeing his chain. Bottomless pit are also there, but you can only fall if someone toss/push you there. Bumper of all sort exist, and water can drag you around.

There would be Surprise crate like in mariokart that give random item, when break with melee move, according to your play statistic to rubberband and balance player. But crate can be used like a projectile instead like in smash bros, different crate could have different property or can explode. Crate randomly appear at some spawn point in the air and fall slowly on the ground with a parachute. Firing the parachute make the crate fall faster and hit player.

When a player die, it release coins, by picking coins you upgrade the power of your weapon. the more coin you get, the more powerful you are but you glow much more and the more coin you release when you died. It push player toward closer battle and attract everybody to the most powerful player.

When a player respawn he have limited amount of invincibility but cannot shot until it end.

What do you guy think?
Logged

J. R. Hill
Level 10
*****

hi


View Profile WWW
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2010, 10:02:30 PM »

Donkey Kong 64.  Giggle
Logged

hi
Pages: 1 [2]
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic