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stolide
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« on: January 14, 2010, 01:32:27 PM »

I am making a game that I think I am actually going to stick with, but to prevent myself from loosing momentum, I am making a thread about it here. It is an adaptation (some elements will be changed for better gameplay) of a short story I wrote, to videogame form.

If you do not want spoilers do not read this: http://stolide.deviantart.com/art/And-The-Writer-Wrote-146885953

All references to writing and such will of course be switched to player, and The Writer will become The Player. You get the idea. (if you actually read it of course) If you did not read it, I'll just summarize it and say that it is about free will, and breaks the fourth wall a fair bit. I am honestly excited about doing this. I do not think I have seen a videogame do anything like this before. (If you have, let me know)

I'll post a screen shot when I get home. I know that I will do a fair bit more over the weekend.
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stolide
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2010, 04:30:01 PM »

Here is a screen shot of the first scene. I have yet to animate anything yet, but it is going fairly well.



I'm thinking a motorcycle chase scene could be nice in this art style...
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Kaworu Nagisa
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2010, 04:41:22 AM »

Hmm...
First of all, concept is very interesting. Original. Worth doing.
I have read the story. It is indeed a bit mad in the way human thought of last century progressed and it deals with something that is unpleasent, fear of a Little Being. Which reminds me that I actually liked very much the idea of "Little Beings" as it was very teasing to my imagination but once you've began to replace this name with "men" it has lost its charm. I probably hoped for a bit more magical story, which makes your story not worse in my opinion. There are two things that I would change if the story would be mine (thus, I do not advise you to change them):
* once a Little Being understood his position in the world and misery of his life he began to shout. The way I felt the character he would rather slowly get down on his knees in this fainting sort of way. Like he would literary lost his faith and will to live.
* mix of logical and phantastical is a tricky one. Because if everything what character does is written by a Writer, shouldn't his thinking be written by him as well? And if so, how can he contemplate of his life as a misery or on possibility of suicide? If everything that has been written by Writer, then the character is not capable of thinking on his own. Thus, his consciousness is something artificial, it is made-up and is like a shadow of true consciousness because this artificial consciousness appears only when Writer requires it and is a written consciousness which is not a true consciousness. Because here lies the difference. If that's just a puppet, it cannot be aware of itself. But if it is sort of a metapuppet, phantasy puppet with "god-given" awareness.
That's where I see the trickiness. It remains a very interesting topic, though, and is worth exploration.

I like the slight symbolism of the story. I'm quite sure that some will see Writer as God and Little Beings as Humans. Also, men who speak of things that didn't happen are considered insane. That's something to explore. There is a nice potential for a metaphor here, for a simile to our world.

I also really like the art. And if you feel that this is how you see your vision, go for it. I wonder if you will add any colours beyond the grayscale.

I've also spotted that you want player to play as a Writer. Why not let him play as a Writer and as a Little Being? Maybe with additional use of Narrator. Personally I would find it more ambitious and intriguing Smiley But that's just me.

Follow yourself. I will be happy to track your progress and eventually play the game  Hand Thumbs Up Right

Good luck.

P.S. Concept, but only in a way, reminds me of "Dark City". Great movie.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 04:48:45 AM by Kaworu Nagisa » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2010, 04:42:26 AM »

One more thing.
How did it happen that "And the Writer Wrote" evolve into "Press X"?
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stolide
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2010, 08:18:37 AM »

I'm glad you liked it. I certainly enjoyed writing it. I try never to do something that is not original, unless it is solely to learn. (like my first few games, mostly too horrible to post)

"* once a Little Being understood his position in the world and misery of his life he began to shout. The way I felt the character he would rather slowly get down on his knees in this fainting sort of way. Like he would literary lost his faith and will to live."

I thought about that, but I'll explain why I did what I did in a second.

"* mix of logical and phantastical is a tricky one. Because if everything what character does is written by a Writer, shouldn't his thinking be written by him as well? And if so, how can he contemplate of his life as a misery or on possibility of suicide? If everything that has been written by Writer, then the character is not capable of thinking on his own. Thus, his consciousness is something artificial, it is made-up and is like a shadow of true consciousness because this artificial consciousness appears only when Writer requires it and is a written consciousness which is not a true consciousness. Because here lies the difference. If that's just a puppet, it cannot be aware of itself. But if it is sort of a metapuppet, phantasy puppet with "god-given" awareness.
That's where I see the trickiness. It remains a very interesting topic, though, and is worth exploration."

I do not know if you have ever tried to write stories or not, but there is an interesting and common phenomena. The writer knows what his characters would do or say in any given situation. Think of it like an anima (or animus in Jungian psychology). In this case, The Writer knows that his character would want to commit suicide. As this runs through his head, the character is effectively thinking it. Because there was very little character exposition in this, it is hard for the readers to understand what the character would do. Probably poor writing practice on my part.

"I like the slight symbolism of the story. I'm quite sure that some will see Writer as God and Little Beings as Humans."

That was intentional, though not to blaspheme. I am personally Christian. But there are many ambiguities about omnipotence and free will existing simultaneously. Tongue

"Also, men who speak of things that didn't happen are considered insane. That's something to explore. There is a nice potential for a metaphor here, for a simile to our world."

Yeah, I thought so myself. I was pleasently surprised at all the metaphors I managed to fit into one coherent piece.

"I also really like the art. And if you feel that this is how you see your vision, go for it. I wonder if you will add any colours beyond the grayscale."

I'm glad you like it. It's hard not to like expressionism. It is very personal, but also keeping many of the best parts of surrealism and abstractionism. I might add colour for dramatic effect, such as when you play through the missing sequence.

"I've also spotted that you want player to play as a Writer. Why not let him play as a Writer and as a Little Being? Maybe with additional use of Narrator. Personally I would find it more ambitious and intriguing  But that's just me."

I sort of am. You directly control the character, and his memories (saved games). The character's every motion is controlled by the player, furthering my point.

I'm glad you are interested in this. It'll certainly cause me to get it done faster.

Also Dark City is one of my favorite movies.

On another note, I finished the walking animation last night, and redid the way text is displayed. Longer sentences were running off the screen depending on where you stood.

"How did it happen that "And the Writer Wrote" evolve into "Press X"?"

The Writer uses a pencil, The Player uses a keyboard. Writing becomes actually playing the game, erasing becomes deleting saved files.
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Sites of mine,

(On energetic dualism) http://teneonon.weebly.com/

(Homebrew tabletop rpgs) http://quomodo.weebly.com/
Kaworu Nagisa
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2010, 12:34:24 PM »

I'm glad you liked it. I certainly enjoyed writing it. I try never to do something that is not original, unless it is solely to learn. (like my first few games, mostly too horrible to post)

To be honest with you, I like every game that explores the medium further. And I'm very happy you try to do this too and that I can both like and dislike your style (I like it because it looks to me it is truly _yours_ and I dislike it because it is so different than my way of seeing things).

"* mix of logical and phantastical is a tricky one. Because if everything what character does is written by a Writer, shouldn't his thinking be written by him as well? And if so, how can he contemplate of his life as a misery or on possibility of suicide? If everything that has been written by Writer, then the character is not capable of thinking on his own. Thus, his consciousness is something artificial, it is made-up and is like a shadow of true consciousness because this artificial consciousness appears only when Writer requires it and is a written consciousness which is not a true consciousness. Because here lies the difference. If that's just a puppet, it cannot be aware of itself. But if it is sort of a metapuppet, phantasy puppet with "god-given" awareness.
That's where I see the trickiness. It remains a very interesting topic, though, and is worth exploration."

I do not know if you have ever tried to write stories or not, but there is an interesting and common phenomena. The writer knows what his characters would do or say in any given situation. Think of it like an anima (or animus in Jungian psychology). In this case, The Writer knows that his character would want to commit suicide. As this runs through his head, the character is effectively thinking it. Because there was very little character exposition in this, it is hard for the readers to understand what the character would do. Probably poor writing practice on my part.

I don't think you understood me. I think that there is a logical problem here and it doesn't only lie in the problem itself but in the nature of what you are playing with. Philosophy doesn't go too well if dominated by spirit of literature (much more beautiful in words, images, expressions, the one that actually relies on characters). That's my personal opinion of course but while I very much understand your attempt, I think that the way of reasoning here is wrong. Writer knows how his character would behave? Writer is his author, of course he knows how he will think and behave because he is the one who imagines character's personality. That's my point. A writer (not a god/God but a writer) does never create personality. He describes situations through which we understand character's personality. But it is not a creation of personality (that's God's thing), it is not even an imitation. Created personality (consciousness) would act on its own. Illusion of personality that writers give us is something different.
Please don't get me wrong. I think that what you did is poetical and has some beauty in it. But, like I said in my first post, mixing modern (complex, complicated and often mad) philosophical ideas with something born from the beauty of your imagination is not just tricky, it is tricky A Lot.

"Also, men who speak of things that didn't happen are considered insane. That's something to explore. There is a nice potential for a metaphor here, for a simile to our world."

Yeah, I thought so myself. I was pleasently surprised at all the metaphors I managed to fit into one coherent piece.

I think you can do more here. It is a perfect moment for you to either let player (reader) think of a problem we experience in the reality or to express your opinion.

"I've also spotted that you want player to play as a Writer. Why not let him play as a Writer and as a Little Being? Maybe with additional use of Narrator. Personally I would find it more ambitious and intriguing  But that's just me."

I sort of am. You directly control the character, and his memories (saved games). The character's every motion is controlled by the player, furthering my point.

Hmm... This is not what I had in mind but it also sounds interesting.

I'm glad you are interested in this. It'll certainly cause me to get it done faster.

I had hoped so Gentleman

On another note, I finished the walking animation last night, and redid the way text is displayed. Longer sentences were running off the screen depending on where you stood.

Keep this thread up-to-date. I will be checking it from time to time with pleasure and maybe some other people shall find it interesting as well.

"How did it happen that "And the Writer Wrote" evolve into "Press X"?"

The Writer uses a pencil, The Player uses a keyboard. Writing becomes actually playing the game, erasing becomes deleting saved files.

Hmmm. I would go for some more powerful and introducing-to-the-story title but it is your vision. If you feel that's right and that's coherent, go for it and listen to the little dwarf in your head Smiley
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stolide
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2010, 03:34:47 PM »

"To be honest with you, I like every game that explores the medium further. And I'm very happy you try to do this too and that I can both like and dislike your style (I like it because it looks to me it is truly _yours_ and I dislike it because it is so different than my way of seeing things)."

I can understand that.

"I don't think you understood me. I think that there is a logical problem here and it doesn't only lie in the problem itself but in the nature of what you are playing with. Philosophy doesn't go too well if dominated by spirit of literature (much more beautiful in words, images, expressions, the one that actually relies on characters). That's my personal opinion of course but while I very much understand your attempt, I think that the way of reasoning here is wrong. Writer knows how his character would behave? Writer is his author, of course he knows how he will think and behave because he is the one who imagines character's personality. That's my point. A writer (not a god/God but a writer) does never create personality. He describes situations through which we understand character's personality. But it is not a creation of personality (that's God's thing), it is not even an imitation. Created personality (consciousness) would act on its own. Illusion of personality that writers give us is something different.
Please don't get me wrong. I think that what you did is poetical and has some beauty in it. But, like I said in my first post, mixing modern (complex, complicated and often mad) philosophical ideas with something born from the beauty of your imagination is not just tricky, it is tricky A Lot."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anima_and_animus

Now consider the possiblity of creating an psychological process similar to an anima, but of the character in question. This is something that occurs to most writers I talk to.

Yes, it is tricky. That is why I try it. Doing something too hard for oneself generally leads to faster progress.

"I think you can do more here. It is a perfect moment for you to either let player (reader) think of a problem we experience in the reality or to express your opinion."

That's something for me to dwell on sticking into the game. As to the short story, I make it a point never to go back and change things after the final draft. (unless I have truely horrid errors or something)

"Hmm... This is not what I had in mind but it also sounds interesting."

What did you have in mind?

"Hmmm. I would go for some more powerful and introducing-to-the-story title but it is your vision. If you feel that's right and that's coherent, go for it and listen to the little dwarf in your head"

I see what you mean. I might think about changing it then. I'm not sure. Also, I always listen to the little dwarves in my head. They do not like you. Some times they tell me to do things to people, most curious things... I hear them now. They want me to grab my axe...  Evil

(Just kidding)
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(On energetic dualism) http://teneonon.weebly.com/

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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2010, 05:47:36 PM »

"I don't think you understood me. I think that there is a logical problem here and it doesn't only lie in the problem itself but in the nature of what you are playing with. Philosophy doesn't go too well if dominated by spirit of literature (much more beautiful in words, images, expressions, the one that actually relies on characters). That's my personal opinion of course but while I very much understand your attempt, I think that the way of reasoning here is wrong. Writer knows how his character would behave? Writer is his author, of course he knows how he will think and behave because he is the one who imagines character's personality. That's my point. A writer (not a god/God but a writer) does never create personality. He describes situations through which we understand character's personality. But it is not a creation of personality (that's God's thing), it is not even an imitation. Created personality (consciousness) would act on its own. Illusion of personality that writers give us is something different.
Please don't get me wrong. I think that what you did is poetical and has some beauty in it. But, like I said in my first post, mixing modern (complex, complicated and often mad) philosophical ideas with something born from the beauty of your imagination is not just tricky, it is tricky A Lot."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anima_and_animus

Now consider the possiblity of creating an psychological process similar to an anima, but of the character in question. This is something that occurs to most writers I talk to.

I'm afraid that we see different things in this theory. The only thing I see here is the more complex yin and yang symbol.

Yes, it is tricky. That is why I try it. Doing something too hard for oneself generally leads to faster progress.

There is no need to be ambitious here Smiley What I mean is that (at least in the story) the whole thing might cause (and did to me) some sort of confusion or feeling of lack of logical coherency. That's all. Maybe a good thing here would be to present your point of view (based on Jung's theory the way you see it) a bit differently.

"Hmm... This is not what I had in mind but it also sounds interesting."

What did you have in mind?

That you could make it more physical and closer to imagination and let player literally play as Writer and as his "victim". Which I find a very interesting idea.

"Hmmm. I would go for some more powerful and introducing-to-the-story title but it is your vision. If you feel that's right and that's coherent, go for it and listen to the little dwarf in your head"

I see what you mean. I might think about changing it then. I'm not sure. Also, I always listen to the little dwarves in my head. They do not like you. Some times they tell me to do things to people, most curious things... I hear them now. They want me to grab my axe...  Evil

(Just kidding)

Find yourself in the state you are sure and I'm sure (hmm...) that it will be the right title.
Also, I don't know about you but I only have one dwarf. I try to take care of her beard as much as I can, to be honest.
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« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2010, 09:47:49 PM »

Seems like an interesting project.  How's development going?

I think your writing is a bit too inaccessible in parts, but I like the concept of the story.  It will be interesting to see how this works in interactive form.  Well, hello there!
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« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 03:27:45 PM »

@ God at play
He just wrote "How peculiar..." so far. Give boy a break Wink
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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2010, 03:39:17 AM »

How is this project going?
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stolide
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« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2010, 05:18:21 AM »

I pretty much dropped this project. Sorry about that. I got too busy and what I wanted was too ambitious for what I was capable of. I am just about to put out something else I have been working on that is a bit less literary, but still based on things I have written...

I do intend to come back to this story, I just cannot do it justice yet. Maybe in about 6 months will I be able to properly translate it to a game.

Since I am dredging up this topic anyways, my new game tries to show what internal conflicts are like. It is hard to describe. You know those horrible arguments one has with himself? Kind of like that. This is shown in the form of a 2d shooter where one is simultaneously trying to build a tower to escape (reach the top of the screen) whilst fighting off his own, less than positive, thoughts.

Right now all I need to do is adjust the difficulty a bit, and remove all the place-holder art. At this point the difficulty curve is exponential with each enemy killed... However, one needs to kill enemies to obtain the blocks to build their tower, and to avoid being killed. Also, one's own bullets will destroy the blocks of the tower, thus creating the effect of franctically clambering up a crumbling tower that is mostly being destroyed by the self...

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« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2010, 05:12:15 PM »

Sounds interesting. Will you upload it on any site of yours?
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