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[BMcC]

I agree about the whole feel of "want to be CS but does like all fan games and never reaches the goal".

Yeah.  But that said, I think there's a lot of (creamy?) goodness in this game.  I think it'll turn out to be pretty special.

[konjak]

I wasn't saying it was bad, I was just saying it was a red banana.

[Bezzy]

I love the movement! This is sort of quick acceleration is what I was trying to suggest for guy balding... I guess it wouldn't quite fit GB as well, but some feel of accelerating would be nice.

I don't understand... Are you saying GB doesn't accelerate fast enough, or that he does too fast?

'Cause there is acceleration in there.  You'd feel the difference if you played it without.  And I did slow it down a bit recently... though not by much -- it's still only about 1/10th of a second.

You'll notice it more when you're slipping on ice. 
[/quote]

I know there IS some acceleration there. I guess that it felt a little... "binary", like, you're either moving or you're not. The acceleration feels like it's only there to smooth it up a bit, but doesn't have much impact on gameplay.

In underside, acceleration matters. In GB, much less so. Does that mean I think you should make acceleration more of a factor? I don't know! Up to you guys!

I guess my ideal acceleration curve is a sort of ... speed_increment = exp(-fabs(speed) * C), so you can get quite quick almost immediately, but if you keep running in a direction you gradually pick up speed above and beyond that immediate speed. Diminishing returns on acceleration, basically. Certainly, when speed is "soft bounded" like that, it feels a bit less robotic... bit more natural and flowing.

But it's your game! Make fun of my suggestions now, okay?

[BMcC]

The acceleration feels like it's only there to smooth it up a bit, but doesn't have much impact on gameplay.

I should hope so -- that's exactly how I want it!  GB's controls are to be precise and direct, not bouncy or slippery (like most platformers).

In underside, acceleration matters.  In GB, much less so.

It matters in that it affects the gameplay, yeah.  But does it improve it?  I think its greatest effect is making the control a little less tight, often causing you to slip or even run off ledges when you don't mean to.

I guess my ideal acceleration curve is a sort of ... Diminishing returns on acceleration, basically. Certainly, when speed is "soft bounded" like that, it feels a bit less robotic... bit more natural and flowing.

I agree with this as a concept, but it can't be applied to every game by default.  I had to make GB to spec, you know?

In GB (BQ?), you have a quick and natural acceleration to your normal movement speed, which I very much wanted to be subtle.  I suppose I could work in diminishing returns after that, but it would only be for effect.  The most it could do (without violating the concept/core design) is make clearing 3 tile wide gaps a bit easier if you've got a running start.

Also, I've gotta say, that's not even how it is in The Underside!  In The Underside, the character seems to accelerate normally for a brief moment, then launches forward at a locked (and much more slidey and "binary" feeling than GB, IMO) speed.

But it's your game! Make fun of my suggestions now, okay?

Aw, I'm not making fun of your suggestions.    You've given some of the best and most thought-out input so far.    I appreciate every word of it.

[Bezzy]

Let's make out!

[BMcC]

DONE 

::smooches::

[GetAGrip]

Is it just me or is does jumping when using a joypad not work?

[konjak]

Acceleration in a game where it barely shows still makes it look good. It's cosmetic, but a DAMN NECESSARY ONE. 

[Gargantua]

It's not a bad game, but I really don't see why he feels the need to pretty much make cave story again. Whether the story is the same or not, I can't think about anything else but cave story as I play it. I suppose it's the graphical style, but I feel like he's got a great idea that's hiding under a desire to be Cave Story.

[Xion]

Okay, finally played it.
Pretty dissapointing, to me.
There are little things with the controls that really irk me to no end, such as not being able to turn around instantly. And there's a slight delay between when I press the jump button and when he actually jumps, which is a huge issue since this is a platform game. At the same time, he moved a little too sharply in the air for me, so if I thought I was gonna miss a platform it was easy to overcompensate while trying to correct my landing. Overall the controls felt very unresponsive and oversensitive at the same time and I hardly felt like I was in control of the little guy. What should have been the simplest jump resulted in me falling into spikes time and time again, and each time I was losing my patience to just get to the next area which made me rush and die even quicker.

That's done with.

Now the good:
The art is awesome and a very good tribute to Cave Story. I love the humor ("You'll be passing by this sign again"...and I did!). While the game seems to be like CS' little brother in terms of graphics and gameplay, the atmosphere provided by the humor is completely different and a welcome thing, which is what I think will distinguish this as its own game. The only nitpick I have about graphics is the harsh blue selout on those black enemies. Once I got through the parts where icky controls hindered me, I found the rest highly fun. I liked the first few areas the most.
I just hope the control issues are fixed.

[Anthony Flack]

It's not a bad game, but I really don't see why he feels the need to pretty much make cave story again. Whether the story is the same or not, I can't think about anything else but cave story as I play it. I suppose it's the graphical style, but I feel like he's got a great idea that's hiding under a desire to be Cave Story.

Okay, so I haven't tried it yet (cue uninformed rant!), but that's certainly the impression I got from the screenshots; the degree of imitation just seems excessive and unneccessary. This is exactly the sort of thing that everyone is always harshing on with mainstream commercial games, particularly those infamous casual games, and quite rightly too. Although I'm not saying this won't be a good game, I'd certainly feel a lot more amenable to it if it didn't seem to be lifting its design wholesale from another person's work. You may say "oh, but it's a tribute", but... well, I don't really buy that line. I don't think it's cool to imitate someone else's style that closely.

[Inane]

From an idealogical view, I'm with Anthony here. I can understand taking some heavy influences, but when most of the game is based off the inspiration...

Gameplay wise, it's actually pretty different feeling from Cave Story. Just wish I had the rest of the game .

[Bezzy]

Acceleration in a game where it barely shows still makes it look good. It's cosmetic, but a DAMN NECESSARY ONE. 

I do not disagree. I'm just always watchful in design whenever anything is added purely for aesthetics' sake. I try to figure out if there's a way to make it impact gameplay interestingly. If it can't, or shouldn't, then I do my best to make sure it doesn't affect gameplay in a negative way.

In GBQ's case it's not a problem, but hopefully the diminishing returns on acceleration might work out feeling a little smoother. Hard to tell until you try it. It might be shite! I do know that exp screwing requires lots of tweaking of magic numbers to get the immediacy vs. the gradualness right.

[Ryan]

Wow, I'm embarrassed. It was too good to be true that I found something before anyone else :D. Thanks for locking el-threado triple D.

Now who is going to give me my spanking?

[DrDerekDoctors]

Haha, I didn't lock the thread. In fact it ain't locked at all. In the moderators infinite wisdom they haven't bestowed upon me such powers. The bastards.

[BMcC]

Hahaha  :D

Hey, if you want to recommend something for the front page in the future, you can use this thread.

BTW, I typed a writeup on The Underside the day the preview was put up, but I haven't gotten around to editing/posting it.  I will as soon as possible, though. 

[Ryan]

Haha, I didn't lock the thread. In fact it ain't locked at all. In the moderators infinite wisdom they haven't bestowed upon me such powers. The bastards.

Ah, I just figured you were due to the custom title. My bad again. Anywho, the creators of this board give us the powah to lock our own threads! (But delete doesn't work- mysql error). Just thought you'd like to know Mr DDD.

And BMcC: thanks for the heads up. I don't really check the forums that often compared to the site, so sorry for my retardation.

Anyways, sorry for being off topic, now on to the discussion of THE UNDERSIDE PREVIEW!

I wanted to wait until I finished the game before I commented about it, but that BOOPEE boss was impossible for me to beat. When I first started playing, the only thing that came to my mind was that I was playing a cheap Cave Story ripoff. After getting into the game, though, I enjoyed it more. The signs are great and the game never leaves you out in the cold, you always know what to do. I absolutely love the little humor snippets put in the game. Can't wait until the full version is released! The only thing I can think of that'd improve the game are:

1. Play game in a 2x window
2. Be able to skip the dialog by pressing X. After having to play over the same areas multiple times due to falling on spikes or what have you, having to read the same messages over and over again is somewhat annoying.
3. More responsive controls, especially the jump button (I died on spikes HOW many times??)
4. More original setting? I dunno, the little cave atmosphere seems identical to cave story, I was hoping for something a little bit different.

[Xion]

4. More original setting? I dunno, the little cave atmosphere seems identical to cave story, I was hoping for something a little bit different.

Yeah, my favorite area was probably the intro area with the grass and all.

[GetAGrip]

Agree, I was hoping more of the game would be like that, but once I dropped into the cave it just turned into a shooter. Perhaps there is more of that stuff later on?

The jumping really need fixing, after you got the shoes it drove me mad. I would fall down at the same spot like 10 times before finishing it and then falling down at another spot Luckily I am a stubborn bastard. Have not gotten to the Boss yet, is it far away once you get the shoes?

[BMcC]

There.  I finally got around to posting a (stripped-down) article on The Underside.

I think I might spout off some opinions in the comments.  Come, join in my gripery!  :D