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[mirosurabu]

How often indie game developers use and maintain their customer mailing lists?

I say customer, okay, it's the marketing term. I meant fan.

But what I am asking here is something that bothers me - I rarely see an indie developer who's trying to build his mailing list.

Are mailing lists of no value to indie developers?
Are opt-ins and bulk e-mailing annoying?
Are squeeze pages annoying?
Or am I blind?

Just trying to understand why is there the difference in marketing approach for how-to market and independent video games market.

[DWWilson]

Seriously I can't count the number of times I've heard developers say that their direct sales are the lifeblood of their company.

Because it is so much easier to retain customers than it is to make new ones (among other things). I would have a customer mailing list, if I had customers. But when you're giving stuff away for free, you can't really ask for someone's e-mail address.

Facebook/twitter are pretty popular, I'm sure I've seen people just advertise their Facebook and use that as a way to keep in contact with people interested in their work.

But yeah not everyone has a mailing list type thing set up. Possibly due to not wanting to feel like a spammer sending out e-mails all the time? Maybe they just don't know how to set one up?

[supershigi]

I think it's difficult to do mass emails these days too because of all the anti-spam measures in place by clients like gmail and yahoo.  Whereas 5 years back you could just use your regular email client to do a mailing list (by BCCing everyone), nowadays you'd have to use a specific mailing list program.  I learned this when I tried sending out a newsletter via gmail and almost got my accout banned for having over 50 recipients in the BCC field >_<  Other than that though, I think mailing lists are a good way to keep people updated.  I'm still a bit self-conscious about sending mass emails, but I figure that if folks actually ask to be put on a mailing list then they probably don't mind. 

Actually, does anyone have a good recommendation for a mailing list program out there?  I've gotten a couple recommendations but I haven't started using any yet.

[synapse]

Mailing lists are so 5 years ago.  Create a Facebook page and have people become fans - you can push emails directly out to them through it.  You also get free advertising to friends of fans.

[mirosurabu]

I'll have to disagree with the assertion that mailing lists are so 5 years ago.

Affiliate marketers and marketers in general still rely on mailing lists as the choice for direct marketing. Facebook pages aren't convenient since you can't easily make Facebook fans and it's simply not a very direct way to market one's product.

With mailing lists, you can build lists for every product you sell. Though in video games industry it's a little bit inconvenient and perhaps a bit aggressive to ask for customer's subscription each time he's buying a game. But with finite continuity programs (programs that deliver product using autoresponders, that is to say, programs which deliver products in chunks across some period of time) it's quite convenient.

Though, I understand that good mailing programs are expensive and that might be what's off-putting for indie game developers. AWeber charges around $10-$30 a month if you have less than 5'000 subscribers.

Again note, this is just a rambling. I'm trying to understand why different products are marketed differently. In this case, why video games aren't marketed the way educational DVD and book products are. (:

[AuthenticKaizen]

I think it's difficult to do mass emails these days too because of all the anti-spam measures in place by clients like gmail and yahoo.  Whereas 5 years back you could just use your regular email client to do a mailing list (by BCCing everyone), nowadays you'd have to use a specific mailing list program.  I learned this when I tried sending out a newsletter via gmail and almost got my accout banned for having over 50 recipients in the BCC field >_<  Other than that though, I think mailing lists are a good way to keep people updated.  I'm still a bit self-conscious about sending mass emails, but I figure that if folks actually ask to be put on a mailing list then they probably don't mind.  

Actually, does anyone have a good recommendation for a mailing list program out there?  I've gotten a couple recommendations but I haven't started using any yet.

i havent used any mailing list provider yet but i did some research on this topic:


i think mailchimp is good
(the free plan is pretty impressive: up to 500 subscribers with 3000 mails a month.
2500 subscribers = 30 $)
http://www.mailchimp.com/pricing/view-all


paul eres uses your mailing list provider which he recommended here
(free plan with some restrictions: up to 1000 subscribers with 1000 mails a month.
2500 subscribers = 10 $)
http://www.yourmailinglistprovider.com/


aweber might also be another alternative
(up to 500 subscribers for 19$.
2500 subscribers = 29 $)
http://www.aweber.com/


mad mimi seems also to be good.
(up to 100 subscribers for free.
2500 subscribers = 14 $)
(recommended by valk and anthony carboni of bytejacker (scroll down to the comments to read his opinion)


campaignmonitor offers you individual pricing.
(5 $ for each campaign + an additional 1 cent fee for every recipient.
that means that 500 subscribers would cost = 10$.
2500 subscribers = 30 $)
http://www.campaignmonitor.com/

moreover:
delicious.com might also have some good recommendations

[Skofo]

Yes, definitely! I also recommend sending out periodic telegraphs and stone tablets.

[Valk]

Mailing lists can be great as long as you speak to people with respect and actually use the process to maintain a relationship with people. I don't use them for games (yet), but I do use them in other areas of business. If you just talk AT people you'll get nowhere. But, if you create a club or group type atmosphere that can work wonders for you.

Another top notch free mailing list manager is: http://madmimi.com/ I discovered them when I got an email from Sound Snap that was sent via this service.

Another way you can go about things is to actually run a membership website. When people buy your game they have the option to register as a member of your site for free. You can offer, say, a standard 10% discount for your members. Then, you can use the membership site to keep in contact with people who have purchased from you.

In my experience it becomes pretty easy to form good relationships and even friendships with people who've bought your stuff and like it. If you keep in touch and let them know when your new stuff comes out, you'll start to get a tonne of action on every new thing as soon as you release it.

It's all just about keeping an open channel of communication with people.

[AuthenticKaizen]

Another top notch free mailing list manager is: http://madmimi.com/ I discovered them when I got an email from Sound Snap that was sent via this service.

looks pretty good. thanks for the tip...just added it to the above list.





i found also a nice little tutorial which might be useful for some of you...

Design and Build Email Newsletters (from Smashing Magazine)
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/01/19/design-and-build-an-email-newsletter-without-losing-your-mind/

[gambrinous]

i found also a nice little tutorial which might be useful for some of you...

Design and Build Email Newsletters (from Smashing Magazine)
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/01/19/design-and-build-an-email-newsletter-without-losing-your-mind/

That's pretty indepth alright, good resource.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i've a mailing list and have had good results with it. i use ymlp; i've about 3000 people on it right now (mostly previous customers), and i use it only very rarely: perhaps twice a year or so, usually to announce sales or big updates to the game or something like that.

[Christian Knudsen]

I have kind of a mailing list. Members at my forum can join a group on the forum where the members will receive an email whenever a new version of my game is released.

But I think dev blogs are now providing a lot of the information that you'd previously put in mailing lists. I believe that like in Paul's situation, mailing lists are now mostly used for big announcements, like a new game starting development or the release of a finished game (and probably patches, as well). They're probably a good way to keep in touch with customers that aren't a part of your community otherwise.

[Over00]

I had a mailing list of around 2,000 persons with Mailchimp. All opt-in of course and I made sure it was clearly visible in the mails where they opted-in if they didn't remember but that still don't prevent people from clicking that "report as spam" button.

Got a dozen of people out of 2,000 that "filled a complaint" (meaning clicked the report as spam button in GMail for example) and soon received a warning from Mailchimp that my account was now on notice.

So yes it's a good way to reach people but it's getting difficult to remain below what's considered acceptable when it comes to complaints (1 per 1,000 with Mailchimp I think).

Even if the list is legit and made sure to clean people that haven't been active for more than 6 months it still doesn't guarantee nobody will click that "report" button that is so easy to click and so tempting.

[Snakey]

I also think that you have to be the right kind of person to be able to do mailing lists. You need to have good writing skills and good communication skills. Sometimes this mean you may need a PR person to do this. More often than not, programmers do not make good PR people.

[mirosurabu]

I also think that you have to be the right kind of person to be able to do mailing lists. You need to have good writing skills and good communication skills. Sometimes this mean you may need a PR person to do this. More often than not, programmers do not make good PR people.

That sounds reasonable but judging from the writing style of successful direct marketers it doesn't seem that marketers muse have "good writing skills" like say journalists do. If that's what you meant by good writing skills. But certainly there's a knowledge involved, empirical or not.

[Radnom]

i've a mailing list and have had good results with it. i use ymlp; i've about 3000 people on it right now (mostly previous customers), and i use it only very rarely: perhaps twice a year or so, usually to announce sales or big updates to the game or something like that.

I'm on it, and I've bought a second copy of Immortal Defense (for a friend) when it mailed me about your sale, so they must work to some extent