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[Oddbob]

Aww, ta :D

Wish I had more time at the moment to devote to it, I've got a backlog of reviews I want to post and there's only really me, xAD and Juice when he can spare the time inbetween work/life. So y'know, if anyone is in an XBLIG-getting region and wants some free games in exchange for good words, you know where I am :p

I know what you mean about promoting XBLIG stuff though, it's fair harder to get the word out with almost every site either not covering games or relying on small round ups once a month and everything lumped in together from PC downloadables/iPhone etc... and to be fair, Navi, Juice and yourself aside, good literate reviews are in short supply.

The only non-Xbox dedicated mag I know willing to take a chance are Edge, but they're as ever a complete wild card. Worth a punt all the same as there's some good people on staff and you never know your luck.

Don't forget there's still a couple of eps of Independint Charles to go, so worth sending Rab a code regardless.

But yeah, mainly you're working on word of mouth and good forum feedback to get your game to spread its wings. I can get it under so many noses but as shown, that doesn't necessarily translate to sales. Keep hammering and don't waste codes on Twitter giveaways until you've nothing left to do with them :D

[edit]

Oh yeah, Ryan does a sort of news dump over at Gamerbytes which covers all the main 3 consoles download services including XBLIG. No editorial really, though. Which is a shame.

Personally, I'd love to cover Wiiware/PSN also but the Wii shop is a bag of shit with vastly more miss than hit (and odd regional differences) and I don't have a PS3/PSP.

Maybe when I'm rich!*

*which at current estimates may be long after I'm dead.

[Cevo70]

Thanks oddbob, good direction there for sure.   Gamerbytes was on my list but I hadn't gone direct yet.

I can say with a little more certainty now that there are some kind souls out there.   I am not exactly sure whats going on over at xboxliveaddicts but I was contacted by one of the most helpful people ever over there.

It requires some thick skin though for sure - getting ignored is still the highest percentage.    Once we truly hit the shelves though, maybe that will help.

PS - if you seriously need a writer and don't consider it a conflict of interest that I develop on XBLIG too, let me know.  I was thinking of turning SmallCave blog towards company updates anyhow.

[Levin]

I suppose I can talk as a journalist, but I can give you just common suggestions. The relationship between developers and press is based on reciprocal exchange: the journalists need cool stories and exclusive assets (interviews, original screens, concepts, demo and stuff like that), while the developers can do nothing without visibility on websites and magazines.

So, maybe you've just received an email from a new and unknown writer but you should treat him like he's your best childhood friend. And vice versa, of course. It's fundamental for both to have a list of sources, trying to stay in contact with a lot of people (so they will remind you).

Many writers screw up thinking that press releases and other websites are the only and best sources for news and articles.
Many developers do the same mistake, thinking that a three-words post on their unknown blog is enough to spread the world. My 2 cents: create a mailing list for the press and a database with all the email addresses and phone numbers. Share a digital copy of your business card with journalists... and remember that you are your own PR.  

[increpare]

I suppose I can talk as a journalist, but I can give you just common suggestions. The relationship between developers and press is based on reciprocal exchange: the journalists need cool stories and exclusive assets (interviews, original screens, concepts, demo and stuff like that), while the developers can do nothing without visibility on websites and magazines

Developers can do a lot without visibility.  Not saying that it's necessarily an approach that a lot of people like.

Many developers do the same mistake, thinking that a three-words post on their unknown blog is enough to spread the world.

Maybe not on an unknown blog, but posting something on tigsource, ludum dare, or elsewhere, can be enough to get word 'round if so desired.  This is the ecosystem in which a lot of games exist.

For me there's a tension between the roles of journalist/writer and game-maker.  I am personally quite wary of any overhead over and above of the actual making and playing of games (doing press-releases/&c.).  My gut reaction is always something like "Why should I pander to them?  Isn't it the responsibility of journalists to seek this stuff out for themselves?"  To which the answer is something like "Most of them are doing this for little or no money - they don't have unlimited resources and often in practice can only work with what they're given."

So I don't think they that friendship is something that characterises my internal model of the relationship.  I really respect a lot of games journalists, but I don't feel the same effusive affection that I have towards developers.  It feels to me like a slightly unnatural line to draw, and it's not one I'm comfortable with.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i think the best indie game journalists do seek news out rather than wait for it to appear to them -- timw is the prime example. he goes through dozens of forums and sites and blogs, each day, to find new games to post about.

also, press releases and emailing journalists don't necessarily have to take up time that'd go to game making. it could take up the time that'd go to watching youtube or posting on forums or talking on irc. i find that my productivity expands to meet the goals i set for it. it probably can't expand unlimitedly, but most people seem to use perhaps 1% of their potential for getting things done. so someone who uses around 3% seems productive by comparison, but is still using only a fraction of available time. i'm making about 10-15 areas for my game each day this month, but still i feel like i'm at the 3% range, getting praised by people at the 1% range for my so-called productivity, when still 97% of my time is wasted.

[Dragonmaw]

I tend to troll through forums for new indie games to post about as well for my job as a journalist, but unfortunately this aspect has been pushed to the side by order of the higher ups.

When you mention "limited resources," this is the principle all games journalism (journalism in general, really) is based on: you have limited time, limited space, and a limited audience attention span. You must convey information as clearly, effectively, and entertainingly as possible. These things are at direct odds, and stories slip through the cracks. IndieGames does not post about every indie game released ever, for example, simply because it's impossible to get that much time with a small staff of writers.

I think good journalism is a mix of going to someone and someone coming to you. I know EA will give me a press release for their latest game, for example. I also know that you won't, increpare. So I'll dig for a story (your new game) and post it, while the stuff that takes less time and effort fills the gaps (mainstream news).

I guess it's sorta like eating and drinking in small amounts before a big meal. To me, the big meal is any weekly column - like Freeware Friday - while the snacks are the mainstream news.

[Levin]

Paul, I totally agree with the fact that it's better to use your time developing your game rather than doing what a PR does, but it's one of the drawbacks of a one-man team. Moreover, the best journalist isn't just the one who lurks on two or three forums, looking for the good game of the day

@increpare
I can understand your point of view, but I can't agree. There are a lot of really good games here on TIGsource but some of them have not been seen from the press. In the same way, my rss reader and my Twitter account are overflowing of feeds from every indie game developer I get in touch, but I really can't know every single announcement or update. This is a problem for a lot of journalists, and the reason because many of them simply wait for the indie game that everyone else is talking about. Trust me, it's not so easy to be a journalist

[CiroContinisio]

Maybe not on an unknown blog, but posting something on tigsource, ludum dare, or elsewhere, can be enough to get word 'round if so desired.  This is the ecosystem in which a lot of games exist.

This is not true. On one side, it's true that some obscure games which didn't even have a blog, break the mold (think about Cave Story). But that is a lone example...
To say that a forum thread on TIGsource is enough (plus a quality game, of course) is a mistake because here on TIGsource more than anywhere it's always the same names and games that make it to the front page.

It's not only my experience, I talked with a lot of devs (from other countries too) and they feel there's a block somehow, like there's some secret ingredients that make your game visible and eligible for game news. I've given a lot of thought about it and these ingredients, sadly, often identify with some link that the devs have with the newser. More sadly, a lot of us on this side of the world often can't make it to the conferences and in general where the heat of the indie scene is, so it's impossible for us to build this relationship and break the indie circle.
Also for initiatives like the Indie Fund, we often ask ourselves if there's even a chance to be taken into consideration if we can't be present at the GDC, for instance. It's very demotivating.

I know that the best publicity for a game is the game itself and its quality, and believe me when I say that I work everyday to make good games, but it's hard when you are alone and you have to do double the work. In this case, having a direct contact with some journalists or bloggers from indie game blogs would help.

Sorry for this ramble, it's slightly personal and off-topic, but related all the same.

[moi]

Yeah thre aer dozens (hundreds?) of game threads that get totally ignored on TIGsource. They are just too many.
As for the frontpage, we all know it's difficult to get frontpaged if you're not already well known.
Indiegames.com/blog is IMO a better way to get known than TIGS and more fair for unknown people, but you need to be lucky to get picked. Artsy/retro pixels help a lot in that regard.
Do a nes remake in pastel colors and you're sure to get on there.

[increpare]

Fair points, moi - (though it should be mentioned that there's plenty of hate that balances that out to some extent : P )

To say that a forum thread on TIGsource is enough (plus a quality game, of course) is a mistake because here on TIGsource more than anywhere it's always the same names and games that make it to the front page.

I wasn't just talking about the tigsource frontpage - there are a number of writers who hang about here. But I see your point.   There's also the problem that a community will tend to favour (favoured) members of that community, and some people just aren't interested in/good at interactive with others, or are themselves rejected by bigger communities for whatever reason.

More sadly, a lot of us on this side of the world often can't make it to the conferences and in general where the heat of the indie scene is, so it's impossible for us to build this relationship and break the indie circle.
Also for initiatives like the Indie Fund, we often ask ourselves if there's even a chance to be taken into consideration if we can't be present at the GDC, for instance. It's very demotivating.

Have you considered coming along to any of the gatherings in europe? (BIGjams, TIGjams, no more sweden, &c. - It's very much possible that you don't have enough money for them of course, but that's as much of a problem for some people in the us as well).  Michael Samyn tried to organise a gathering at gdc last summer, but didn't get enough interest for it to be worth doing anything.  I know that there are a lot of conferences in the europe for indie people ( World of Love, State of Independence, NLGD, Indiecade, possibly some others).

I definitely know how hard it can be to work in isolation - working in the (occasional) personal company of others I find to be an infinitely better setup.

[Dustin Smith]

For me there's a tension between the roles of journalist/writer and game-maker.  I am personally quite wary of any overhead over and above of the actual making and playing of games (doing press-releases/&c.).  My gut reaction is always something like "Why should I pander to them?  Isn't it the responsibility of journalists to seek this stuff out for themselves?"  To which the answer is something like "Most of them are doing this for little or no money - they don't have unlimited resources and often in practice can only work with what they're given."

Heh, since you're so prolific and low-profile I have your site as a shortcut on my desktop. 

To say that a forum thread on TIGsource is enough (plus a quality game, of course) is a mistake because here on TIGsource more than anywhere it's always the same names and games that make it to the front page.

Ciro: Even if it doesn't make it to TIG's front page people like TimW and myself might pick up on it. I make it a habit to scour Feedback, and to a lesser degree I check out Announcements.

Once somebody makes an interesting game I keep tabs on them; between this and forums I'd say I find ~60% of my review material. 20% comes from press releases/emails -- not counting the overlap of games I already knew about. Ten percent comes from Indiegames.com/blog because they're a lot more thorough than I am. The last ten comes from odd corners of the net; for example I delved into the modding scene a while back to pick up a game here and there.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

@CiroContinisio - as a writer for the tigsource frontpage, if you have any games to suggest pm them or email ([email protected]) to me and i'll consider reviewing them -- as i mentioned recently on my formspring, i do think that the barrier you are talking about is real and a big problem and would like to make it less of a barrier

[moi]

more of a fence.

[CiroContinisio]

Thanks for the comprehension guys, this relieves me somehow.

@increpare:
I plan to go to the No More Sweden this summer. I'd like to go to the GDC Europe, but the airplane ticket alone (not considering the GDC ticket) is the amount of money on my bank account :D

Just to get back in topic, do you think press releases, in the general sense (like a pre-made statement page which you email to newsers, with some already written text that shouts how much your game is cool), are a good thing or they are too cold?
Do game journalist like them? (because they're quick and to the point?)

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i think press releases work for certain mainstream games industry sites but don't really work for indie game sites -- for an indie game site you're better off sending an email.

in general personalized emails are better, but often you don't have time for that since there are so many sites that may potentially cover your game (hundreds or thousands) so writing a personal email to each one may not be possible.

so if you really want a site to review your game, send a personal email to someone specific, and mention why you think your game is a good match for their site, and call them by name etc. otherwise, if you don't really care whether a site will review your game or not, or don't have much time, you may have to resort to a press release.

[Dustin Smith]

Press releases let me know of a game, but usually aren't the contributing factor for whether or not I'll review it. I have a good report with a handful of people at PTT, their suggestions (via PTT's Suggestion page) usually trump a random person's press release. I agree with Paul, a personalized email goes pretty far -- at least with me. It shows that the person has an interest in the site and understands where we're coming from.

[CiroContinisio]

The personal email was not in doubt. I always write personal emails.. I was pondering about if it's better to send a longer email or a shorter mail with a press release as an attachment. The press release of course is generic and more, as you say, mainstream (although it can contain irony or humor, of course... we're not EA :D)

[Dustin Smith]

It wouldn't hurt, a simple explanation of your game via press release would give the general gist of the title. Alternatively, you could link to your site (if you have one) which contains the same info. On a handful of occasions I didn't care for the game the person sent me, but I did enjoy another title they made.   

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

if you have a site that explains the game, that site will do a good enough job at giving further details about a game (with its trailer, screenshots, game description, about page, and so on) if someone's interested. so i'd err on the side of short emails with lots of links (to the site, to the trailer, to some screens). maybe 2-3 paragraphs max. i don't mind reading more but a lot of people hate walls of text.

[moi]

I don't think personalized email will solve anything. Website reviewers probably get hundreds of emails. IMO the best help is to get some recomendation from someone in the mob.