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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperPlaytestingManufactoria: A Game About Putting Robots In Their Place
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Author Topic: Manufactoria: A Game About Putting Robots In Their Place  (Read 146704 times)
PleasingFungus
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« Reply #320 on: June 22, 2010, 10:02:28 AM »

My (woefully inefficient) solution to judiciary made the engine give up; it said it was brooding for a couple of seconds, then said it was "out of patience".
Yeah, I was testing a little too aggressively with Judiciary, I think. I've modified it.

Hell, I was thinking of suggesting an artificial delay of a second or so, just so there's time to read the odd screen that flashes by in an eyeblink (on most levels) when you click play. Maybe drop in a fake progress bar or a spinner while it calculates. I didn't even realise it was saying that it found no flaws until I tried it on a more complex level to slow the thing down.
I've made the success/failure message roughly twice as slow, with the option to hit 'escape' to skip it. Will have to think about a progress thing for the actual calculation... it's certainly doable, probably desirable, but I need to work out the details.

Thanks for the testing-feedback! It's appreciated.
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man-man
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« Reply #321 on: June 22, 2010, 10:55:01 AM »

I was just thinking have a little animation of a loading bar that takes x seconds to "load" from end to end, where x is a time greater than the calculation generally takes.

But an honest loading bar is cool too I guess  Tongue
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Katsew
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« Reply #322 on: June 22, 2010, 12:22:31 PM »

Along with everyone else, I think adding a bit of a delay would be good so that you can always see what it says when it "thinks".

I've also discovered that several of my solutions have flaws :O So looks like this game will be eating even more of my time Smiley
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PleasingFungus
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« Reply #323 on: June 22, 2010, 04:23:51 PM »

I've also discovered that several of my solutions have flaws :O So looks like this game will be eating even more of my time Smiley
THE MALEVOLENCE ENGINE SEES ALL

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE ITS SEARING GAZE

(I'll definitely have to put some more thought into the (fake?) loading-bar thing! Expect a new beta-version... sometime tonight. (Pacific time.))
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Istas
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« Reply #324 on: June 23, 2010, 06:58:33 AM »

Just a question; Should non-zero binary strings in output robots start with a zero? Also, should binary strings with a value of zero, consist of more than one red dot? I've seen both of these in input robots, and while I think it's a judgement call as to what's acceptable and what's not, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't unintentional.
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PleasingFungus
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« Reply #325 on: June 23, 2010, 02:28:10 PM »

Just a question; Should non-zero binary strings in output robots start with a zero? Also, should binary strings with a value of zero, consist of more than one red dot? I've seen both of these in input robots, and while I think it's a judgement call as to what's acceptable and what's not, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't unintentional.

It doesn't matter at all! They're leading zeroes, which means they're meaningless - 011 is the same as 11, or as 0011 or 00011, for that matter!

(Oh, and the NEW VERSION / FINAL UPDATE is up.)
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Patashu
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« Reply #326 on: June 24, 2010, 06:55:48 AM »

Copy-pasting this solution to robo-children from an older version:

Code:
http://pleasingfungus.com/#?lvl=18&code=c12:4f3;c12:5f3;c12:6f3;g12:3f3;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;i11:8f4;i13:8f0;c14:8f0;c10:8f2;p11:9f1;p12:9f7;p13:9f1;r10:9f1;b14:9f1;q12:10f6;p12:11f7;g11:10f1;g13:10f1;c11:11f1;c13:11f1;

The malevolence engine finds no flaw, but then prints this on the Success screen:

THE MALEVOLENCE ENGINE IS EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED IN YOU.

CHEATER.

What's his beef with my solution, exactly? I tried clearing it and recreating it from scratch except to shift some writers and it still says the same thing.
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man-man
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« Reply #327 on: June 24, 2010, 11:26:07 AM »

Copy-pasting this solution to robo-children from an older version:

Code:
http://pleasingfungus.com/#?lvl=18&code=c12:4f3;c12:5f3;c12:6f3;g12:3f3;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;i11:8f4;i13:8f0;c14:8f0;c10:8f2;p11:9f1;p12:9f7;p13:9f1;r10:9f1;b14:9f1;q12:10f6;p12:11f7;g11:10f1;g13:10f1;c11:11f1;c13:11f1;

The malevolence engine finds no flaw, but then prints this on the Success screen:

THE MALEVOLENCE ENGINE IS EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED IN YOU.

CHEATER.

What's his beef with my solution, exactly? I tried clearing it and recreating it from scratch except to shift some writers and it still says the same thing.

At a guess I'd say it's picking up on having R/B branches stacked next to each other, and mistakenly reaches the conclusion that you're using the "endless row of R/B branches" method of solving that level.

Edit: Except I just tried that and it didn't call me a cheater.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 11:29:42 AM by man-man » Logged
PleasingFungus
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« Reply #328 on: June 24, 2010, 11:28:16 AM »

Copy-pasting this solution to robo-children from an older version:

Code:
http://pleasingfungus.com/#?lvl=18&code=c12:4f3;c12:5f3;c12:6f3;g12:3f3;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;i11:8f4;i13:8f0;c14:8f0;c10:8f2;p11:9f1;p12:9f7;p13:9f1;r10:9f1;b14:9f1;q12:10f6;p12:11f7;g11:10f1;g13:10f1;c11:11f1;c13:11f1;

The malevolence engine finds no flaw, but then prints this on the Success screen:

THE MALEVOLENCE ENGINE IS EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED IN YOU.

CHEATER.

What's his beef with my solution, exactly? I tried clearing it and recreating it from scratch except to shift some writers and it still says the same thing.
Ah! It's being a bit overzealous. I've fixed it for the next release. Sorry about that!

(That's a beautiful solution, by the way. Elegant. Very nice.)

At a guess I'd say it's picking up on having R/B branches stacked next to each other, and mistakenly reaches the conclusion that you're using the "endless row of R/B branches" method of solving that level.
Nope! Well, yes, the 'endless row of R/B branches" is what it was hunting for, but the problem had nothing to do with his solution.

Should be fixed now, anyway. (Hopefully.)
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Journeyman
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« Reply #329 on: June 24, 2010, 08:23:43 PM »

I had an Androids machine that was working before, but is not working after the update...I was on the assumption that the machine must select by acceptance on that puzzle (there is not output requirement listed). Now, it tells me my output is rejected!  Was there to be an output for that one?

Edit: Aand, nevermind! Your malevolence engine is actually deliciously helpful. I realized that I had a slight misunderstanding of the acceptance requirements, and as such, missed one type of condition that the prior version simply never tested. Your engine, though, hopped right to that case!
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 09:40:39 PM by Journeyman » Logged
CyberShadow
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« Reply #330 on: June 24, 2010, 11:09:11 PM »

Hi! Thanks for the great game, etc.

I didn't initially understand what the flip/rotate buttons at the left side of the field were for. I thought they allowed you to flip or rotate the selected part of the level, which would be really nice for symmetrical constructions - so here's my feature request. (Also maybe something that flips colors, but that's asking too much Tongue)
Edit: I just noticed that the description of the select tool mentions rotating and flipping keys, but they don't work for me.

Also, the Malevolence Engine seems to try empty strings for levels where they don't seem to be appropriate (e.g. where the level description explicitly refers to a "first" or "last" element)...

Does solving "Generals" get you a different ending if you solve it before "Engineers"?

Another idea: would it be hard to have the game use the OS clipboard when you press Shift+C/V? Just make it encode the tiles to an ASCII string. Then you can save fragments ("components" if you will) as snippets you can copy and paste between levels!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 02:56:49 AM by CyberShadow » Logged
PleasingFungus
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« Reply #331 on: June 25, 2010, 01:36:49 PM »

I didn't initially understand what the flip/rotate buttons at the left side of the field were for. I thought they allowed you to flip or rotate the selected part of the level, which would be really nice for symmetrical constructions - so here's my feature request.
Sorry - the UI can be confusing. The buttons actually do that, though in an odd way - drag a selection over them and hover to make them work. (It's weird and clunky, but it's probably too much work at this stage to change it.)

Alternately - and more simply - once you've selected and are dragging something, you can use space to flip and the direction keys to rotate it, as the help text says.

Also, the Malevolence Engine seems to try empty strings for levels where they don't seem to be appropriate (e.g. where the level description explicitly refers to a "first" or "last" element)...
There's usually a logical reading for each of those levels. For instance, for 'robocoffee', the level description tells you to accept if the string begins with blue - the empty string clearly doesn't, so you should reject!

It can be a little unintuitive, but there's a reason to the Malevolence Engine's working. (Even before I added it, most levels tested the empty string anyway.)

Does solving "Generals" get you a different ending if you solve it before "Engineers"?
Nope! That'd be rad, and I've had it suggested before, but I never thought of it as an ending - Engineers was always the planned ending, and Generals only ended up on the same column by the quirky whim of my AUTOMATIC MENU-LAYOUT GENERATOR. An alternate ending would be a cool thing to add, but I'm restricting myself to bug-fixes these days, so I can work on my next game.

Another idea: would it be hard to have the game use the OS clipboard when you press Shift+C/V? Just make it encode the tiles to an ASCII string. Then you can save fragments ("components" if you will) as snippets you can copy and paste between levels!
Hm. Probably not! Though I do like the idea.
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WilliamLP
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« Reply #332 on: June 25, 2010, 04:02:35 PM »

What a fantastic game! I've had a lot of fun with this and have six more levels to go.

I'm wondering though, is there a way to turn off the malevolence engine? I know some of my solutions pass the simple cases but I still want to see them churning through sometimes. It's upsetting to see a big part of my machine never even run if I get it right the first time sometimes:)
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PleasingFungus
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« Reply #333 on: June 25, 2010, 04:13:41 PM »

I'm wondering though, is there a way to turn off the malevolence engine? I know some of my solutions pass the simple cases but I still want to see them churning through sometimes. It's upsetting to see a big part of my machine never even run if I get it right the first time sometimes:)
Haha! As in, run it visually?

The Malevolence Engine runs a ridiculous number of tests. So many that it would take weeks to run them at normal speed - even at 50x, it'd take many hours! (And be fairly boring.) So that's not going to work!

You might also mean that you want to switch back the old testing method, with loads of visual tests. But there's a reason I switched from them - they're not as thorough!

My suggestion to you would be to use the 'custom input' mode - the wrench above the level-description in the build screen. Then you can put together whatever input you want, and watch your machine crunch away at it to your heart's content!
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WilliamLP
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« Reply #334 on: June 25, 2010, 04:38:12 PM »

Thanks for the reply, and the manual input will work fine; I wasn't using it.

Still I feel like there's a little something missing compared to before when I can't get the satisfaction of seeing several test cases actually working visually in a row. One way to go would be to work like TopCoder and have a few selectable visual tests and then you run the malevolence engine after you beat those. Also though, I'm quite aware that if I were developing this, this is a feature I would happily say no to;)

Congrats again for a wonderful game and a real mind-expander, and kudos for the continuous improvement to the interface!
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Mercen4ry
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« Reply #335 on: June 26, 2010, 02:05:45 AM »

Hey there! I just finished the main puzzle tree,* and wanted to thank you for the terrific game. As someone with less of a CompSci background than he's comfortable with, it's nice to know my Turing logic is up to par. Smiley


One gripe. This passes the Malevolence Engine's tests (as of 1.30f), without complaining about cheating:
http://goo.gl/2coP

Of course, this has been brought up earlier in the thread. I figured I'd just post a representative example.


Regardless, thanks for creating this!**

--
* Yes, the full tree (but not all of the bonus levels). Yes, with the Malevolence Engine. YES, I did make sure to verify it passes for every puzzle with generalized solutions. Droop

** By any chance, do you have a donation bin or store for me to show my support? If not, at least put up Robotoast pins, or something. Smiley
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 02:22:14 AM by Mercen4ry » Logged
Mercen4ry
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« Reply #336 on: June 26, 2010, 02:18:18 AM »

Also, here's my solution dump, should it offer insight to anyone.

I'm considering finishing the bonus puzzles, but really, I should get back to my reading. Tired

Code:
Level 1: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=1&code=c12:6f3;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;
Level 2: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=2&code=p12:6f2;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;
Level 3: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=3&code=c12:5f2;c13:5f1;c13:4f2;c14:4f3;c14:5f3;p14:6f3;c15:6f1;c15:5f0;c13:6f0;c12:6f3;c13:7f1;p12:7f3;p10:8f3;c11:7f0;c10:7f3;c11:8f1;c9:8f3;c9:9f3;c9:10f2;c10:10f2;c11:10f2;
Level 4: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=4&code=p12:7f3;c12:8f3;c12:6f3;c11:7f2;
Level 5: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=5&code=p12:5f3;c12:4f3;c11:5f1;c11:4f1;c11:3f0;c10:3f0;c8:3f3;c9:3f0;p8:4f3;p9:4f3;p15:4f3;p16:4f3;c13:5f1;c13:4f1;c13:3f2;c14:3f2;c15:3f2;c16:3f3;c15:5f3;c12:10f3;c15:6f0;c14:6f0;c13:6f0;c12:6f3;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c16:5f0;c8:5f2;c9:5f3;c9:6f2;c10:6f2;c11:6f2;
Level 6: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=6&code=c12:4f2;c13:4f3;c11:10f3;c11:11f2;p13:5f3;c14:5f1;c14:4f0;p12:7f3;p11:9f3;c12:5f3;c12:6f3;c13:7f2;c14:7f1;c14:6f1;c13:9f1;c13:8f1;c12:9f2;c10:9f1;c10:8f2;c11:8f3;c11:7f3;
Level 7: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=7&code=c12:6f3;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;p12:5f3;c12:4f3;c11:4f0;p11:5f2;p13:5f0;c13:4f2;p14:4f6;p10:4f4;c10:3f3;c14:3f3;c10:5f2;c11:6f1;c13:6f1;c14:5f0;
Level 8: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=8&code=p12:6f3;r13:6f3;b11:6f3;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;c13:7f0;c11:7f2;
Level 9: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=9&code=c12:5f3;p12:6f3;g11:6f1;y13:6f1;c11:5f2;c13:5f0;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;
Level 10: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=10&code=g12:4f3;y12:10f3;p12:7f3;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c12:6f3;c12:5f3;b11:7f2;r13:7f0;
Level 11: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=11&code=p12:6f3;p11:6f3;c12:5f3;c13:6f1;c13:5f0;c10:6f1;c10:5f2;c11:5f3;c11:7f3;c11:8f3;c11:9f3;c11:10f2;
Level 12: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=12&code=r12:4f3;r12:5f3;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;r12:6f3;
Level 13: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=13&code=y11:5f2;c11:6f0;p12:6f3;y13:5f0;c13:6f2;r14:5f0;c12:4f3;c12:5f3;c11:4f2;c12:8f3;c12:12f3;q14:6f6;r15:6f1;c15:5f1;c15:4f0;c14:4f0;c13:4f0;b14:7f3;c14:8f0;c13:8f0;q12:7f3;b11:10f2;c11:11f2;p12:10f3;q12:11f3;r13:10f0;c13:11f0;y11:8f3;b11:9f2;c12:9f3;g12:2f3;y12:3f3;q11:7f0;c7:4f2;c7:5f1;c7:6f1;r7:7f1;c8:4f2;c8:5f1;b8:6f1;c8:7f0;c9:4f2;b9:5f2;q9:6f0;g9:7f0;c10:6f0;c10:4f2;c10:5f2;c10:8f0;c9:8f0;c8:8f0;c7:8f0;c6:8f1;c6:7f1;c6:6f1;c6:5f1;c6:4f2;y10:7f3;g13:7f2;
Level 14: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=14&code=y11:5f2;c11:6f0;y13:5f0;c13:6f2;c12:4f3;c12:5f3;c11:4f2;c12:8f3;c12:12f3;q14:6f6;c15:5f1;c15:4f0;c14:4f0;c13:4f0;c14:8f0;c13:8f0;q12:7f3;b11:10f2;c11:11f2;p12:10f3;q12:11f3;r13:10f0;c13:11f0;y11:8f3;c12:9f3;g12:2f3;y12:3f3;q11:7f0;c7:4f2;c7:5f1;c7:6f1;c8:4f2;c8:5f1;c8:7f0;c9:4f2;q9:6f0;g9:7f0;c10:6f0;c10:4f2;c10:5f2;c10:8f0;c9:8f0;c8:8f0;c7:8f0;c6:8f1;c6:7f1;c6:6f1;c6:5f1;c6:4f2;y10:7f3;c11:9f2;p12:6f7;b15:6f1;b14:5f0;r14:7f3;r9:5f2;r8:6f1;b7:7f1;
Level 15: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=15&code=p12:3f3;c13:3f0;p12:6f2;c12:5f2;c13:5f2;c12:7f2;c13:7f2;p14:8f3;c14:5f3;c14:6f3;c14:7f3;c13:8f3;c13:9f3;c15:8f3;c15:9f3;p12:11f0;c12:10f0;c13:10f3;c15:10f0;c14:10f0;c13:11f0;c10:10f3;c10:11f3;c11:12f2;c11:3f0;c10:3f3;p10:4f3;c9:4f3;c9:5f3;c10:6f2;c11:6f2;c11:4f3;c11:5f3;c11:10f0;c9:6f2;c10:12f2;
Level 16: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=16&code=c13:4f0;p12:7f3;p13:6f1;c12:6f3;c13:7f1;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;c11:4f3;c11:5f3;c11:6f2;p12:4f3;
Level 17: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=17&code=c8:11f2;c9:11f2;c10:11f2;c11:11f2;q8:9f3;q9:9f3;q10:9f3;q11:9f3;q12:9f3;q13:9f3;q14:9f3;q15:9f3;q16:9f3;c8:10f3;c8:8f3;c8:7f3;y11:4f0;g13:4f0;p12:4f7;p10:4f4;y10:3f3;c9:4f0;c8:4f3;c8:5f3;c8:6f3;c12:5f0;g11:5f1;
Level 18: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=18&code=c12:11f3;c10:4f2;g10:5f1;c11:4f2;p11:5f3;c12:4f3;p12:5f3;c13:4f0;p13:5f3;c14:4f0;y14:5f1;c12:3f3;c15:5f1;c15:4f0;c9:4f2;c9:5f1;c12:9f3;c12:6f3;b10:8f1;q11:8f7;q12:8f7;q13:8f7;r14:8f1;c12:7f3;c10:7f2;c11:7f2;c14:7f0;c13:7f0;p12:10f3;b11:10f0;r13:10f2;c14:10f2;c15:10f1;c15:9f1;c15:8f1;c15:7f1;c15:6f1;c9:10f1;c9:9f1;c9:8f1;c9:7f1;c9:6f1;c10:10f0;
Level 19: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=19&code=y12:4f3;y12:2f3;g12:3f3;p12:7f3;c12:6f3;q14:7f2;q10:7f4;b11:11f2;p12:11f3;q12:12f6;r13:11f0;c11:7f0;c13:7f2;c12:10f3;q10:8f7;q14:8f3;c12:5f3;q12:9f2;c12:8f3;y11:8f2;y13:8f0;c13:9f3;c13:10f0;b9:7f1;c9:6f2;c10:6f2;c11:6f2;c14:6f0;c13:6f0;c18:6f0;c17:6f0;y10:9f3;r6:10f2;p7:10f1;b8:10f0;g8:9f0;y9:8f3;b9:9f0;q7:9f3;c10:10f0;c9:10f0;c6:9f1;c6:8f2;c7:8f1;c6:6f2;r6:7f1;c7:6f2;p7:7f1;y8:6f2;b8:7f1;y16:6f0;c15:6f0;r15:7f1;r16:7f1;p17:7f1;b18:7f1;c17:8f1;c18:8f0;c18:9f1;q17:9f7;p17:10f1;b18:10f0;r16:10f2;g16:9f2;r15:9f2;y15:8f3;y14:9f3;c14:10f2;c15:10f2;
Level 20: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=20&code=g13:2f2;y14:2f3;y12:2f2;c6:3f2;r6:4f1;c6:5f2;c6:6f1;r6:7f2;c7:3f2;p7:4f1;c7:5f1;q7:6f3;p7:7f1;y8:3f2;b8:4f1;g8:6f0;b8:7f0;c9:3f2;b9:4f1;y9:5f3;b9:6f0;c9:7f0;c10:3f2;q10:4f4;q10:5f7;y10:6f3;c10:7f0;c11:3f2;c11:4f0;y11:5f2;c12:3f3;p12:4f3;c12:5f3;q12:6f2;c12:7f3;c13:3f0;c13:4f2;y13:5f0;c13:6f3;c13:7f0;c14:3f0;q14:4f2;q14:5f3;y14:6f3;c14:7f2;c15:3f0;r15:4f1;y15:5f3;r15:6f2;c15:7f2;y16:3f0;r16:4f1;g16:6f2;r16:7f2;c17:3f0;p17:4f1;c17:5f1;q17:6f7;p17:7f1;c18:3f0;b18:4f1;c18:5f0;c18:6f1;b18:7f0;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;p12:10f3;p11:10f0;p13:10f6;q12:11f0;q12:12f2;r13:11f1;r11:11f1;b11:9f3;b13:9f3;q14:10f3;q10:10f7;g9:10f0;g15:10f2;p8:9f1;p16:10f2;p16:9f5;b15:9f2;b9:9f0;p8:10f0;r17:9f0;r7:9f2;q8:8f1;y9:8f2;y15:8f0;q16:8f5;c10:8f2;c11:8f2;c14:8f0;c13:8f0;
Level 21: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=21&code=p12:3f3;c12:4f3;c12:5f3;c12:6f3;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;c12:11f3;c12:12f3;y12:2f3;c11:3f1;c11:2f0;c10:2f0;c9:2f3;c8:4f3;c9:5f3;p9:7f3;q9:6f7;c11:6f2;q9:8f3;y8:8f0;c7:8f0;c6:8f1;c6:7f1;c6:6f1;c6:5f1;c6:4f1;c6:3f1;c8:2f2;p6:2f1;c7:2f2;p8:5f7;p9:3f7;b10:3f0;c8:3f3;r7:5f2;b8:7f2;p10:6f6;y10:5f2;b11:5f1;c11:4f1;
Level 22: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=22&code=c12:11f3;g12:2f3;q12:5f6;b11:4f2;p12:4f3;r13:4f1;r13:3f0;c12:3f3;p11:7f3;p12:7f3;c12:8f3;p13:7f3;c10:6f2;c11:6f2;c12:6f3;c14:6f0;c13:6f0;g10:7f1;y14:7f1;b10:10f1;q11:10f7;q12:10f7;q13:10f7;r14:10f1;c12:9f3;c10:9f2;c11:9f2;c14:9f0;c13:9f0;p12:12f3;b11:12f0;r13:12f2;c14:12f2;c15:12f1;c15:11f1;c15:10f1;c15:9f1;c15:8f1;c15:7f1;c9:12f1;c9:11f1;c9:10f1;c9:9f1;c9:8f1;c9:7f1;c9:6f2;c15:6f0;c10:12f0;
Level 23: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=23&code=g12:2f3;y12:3f3;r11:5f2;p12:5f7;b13:5f0;c12:4f3;q12:6f3;g13:6f2;c14:6f1;c14:5f1;c14:4f0;c13:4f0;q11:6f0;c11:7f2;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;c12:11f3;c12:12f3;r7:5f2;r7:7f2;p8:5f1;p8:6f2;p8:7f7;q8:8f7;b9:5f0;y9:6f0;b9:7f0;c10:6f0;q8:4f5;g9:4f2;r10:4f2;g7:8f0;b6:8f1;c6:7f1;c6:6f1;c6:5f1;c6:4f1;c6:3f2;c7:3f2;c8:3f2;c9:3f2;c10:3f2;c11:3f3;c11:4f2;
Level 24: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=24&code=g12:2f3;c12:3f3;p12:5f3;c12:4f3;p14:5f2;p10:5f0;g11:3f2;g13:3f0;b11:4f3;r11:6f1;c11:5f0;c10:3f2;c13:5f2;b13:4f3;r13:6f1;c14:3f0;c9:5f3;c9:6f3;c15:5f3;c15:6f3;c12:6f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;c12:11f3;c12:12f3;q14:4f4;q14:6f0;q10:4f2;q10:6f6;c9:8f2;c10:8f2;c11:8f2;c12:8f3;c13:8f0;c14:8f0;c15:8f0;c9:7f3;c12:7f3;c15:7f3;
Level 25: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=25&code=p12:6f3;c12:9f3;g12:5f3;b13:6f0;r11:6f2;q12:7f6;c12:8f3;
Level 26: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=26&code=p12:6f3;b13:7f0;q12:7f3;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c13:6f0;g11:6f2;c12:5f3;
Level 27: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=27&code=g12:4f3;y12:5f3;p12:7f3;b11:7f2;r13:7f0;g11:8f2;c12:6f3;q13:8f6;c13:9f3;c13:10f3;c13:11f0;p15:8f2;y14:7f1;r15:7f0;c14:8f2;c15:9f2;c16:9f1;c16:8f1;c16:7f1;c16:6f1;q14:4f0;r15:3f3;p15:4f4;b15:5f1;c16:5f1;g14:5f0;b13:5f3;c14:6f0;c13:6f0;y16:4f0;q12:8f1;
Level 28: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=28&code=c12:10f3;c12:11f3;g12:3f3;p12:5f3;q13:5f5;q11:5f1;b11:4f2;r13:4f0;c12:4f3;g10:5f3;b10:6f2;r14:6f0;g14:5f3;c12:6f3;c12:9f3;c11:6f2;c13:6f0;p12:7f3;r13:7f0;b11:7f2;q12:8f3;c13:8f0;
Level 29: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=29&code=c12:11f3;c12:10f3;y12:3f3;p12:6f3;c12:4f3;c12:5f3;c12:9f3;p11:6f0;b11:5f3;r11:7f1;q10:6f7;g9:6f0;p8:6f0;c10:4f2;c11:4f2;p8:5f1;b9:5f0;r7:5f2;q8:4f1;y9:4f2;c14:4f0;c13:4f0;y15:4f0;g15:6f2;p13:6f6;p16:6f2;b13:5f3;p16:5f5;r13:7f1;r17:5f0;b15:5f2;q16:4f5;q14:6f3;q12:7f0;q12:8f2;
Levels 30 and above: Not attempted.
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man-man
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« Reply #337 on: June 26, 2010, 03:22:54 AM »

Also, here's my solution dump, should it offer insight to anyone.

I'm considering finishing the bonus puzzles, but really, I should get back to my reading. Tired
I started looking through the first couple, and you could really improve the efficiency of those. Largely by making use of the fact that you don't have to feed robots into a branch from the "top".

For example,
Code:
?lvl=3&code=p12:6f4;c12:5f3;c11:7f3;p11:8f4;c11:9f2;p12:7f3;c13:7f0;c12:9f3;
?lvl=6&code=c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;c11:5f2;c11:6f1;c11:7f1;p12:5f2;p12:6f2;p12:7f7;c13:7f0;c12:4f3;

Might just be the early ones though... I haven't looked at the later levels, and I know my initial run of solutions got gradually better as I learned more tricks.

Oh, another one would be how you can reverse the direction of branches

Example,
Code:
?lvl=16&code=c12:4f3;p12:5f2;p12:6f3;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;p13:6f7;

One last Useful Trickā„¢, given that there are often setups where a branch has a writer pointing back into it (when you're scanning through the tape waiting for something to come up), instead of putting a writer on the return journey to that branch point, connect the returning conveyor to the writer that was part of the scanning section.

E.g. (compare to your solution to Robomecha)
Code:
?lvl=28&code=g12:3f3;c12:9f3;c12:8f3;p12:5f3;q11:5f1;q13:5f5;b11:4f2;r13:4f0;c12:4f3;g10:5f3;g14:5f3;b11:6f2;p12:6f3;q12:7f0;r13:6f0;c10:6f2;c14:6f0;c12:10f3;c12:11f3;
Not sure if that's the best example... but the principle stands; re-use your writers.

I keep coming back to this with another useful thing to add to the list... hopefully this is the last. Looking at your solution to Level 29, and generally speaking on the ones where you need to do something a bit clever with greens/yellows, it can save you some trouble if you can re-use the same machinery and just keep track of which of several greens you're expecting to be reading towards at that point, rather than using a yellow for the other one.
This is hard to articulate so I'm just going to post a level code rather than trying to explain it all.

Code:
?lvl=29&code=g12:4f3;p12:5f3;q13:5f2;q11:5f4;p10:5f2;p14:5f4;r10:4f3;r14:4f3;b10:6f1;b14:6f1;c12:3f3;c12:6f3;c12:7f3;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;c12:11f3;p11:3f1;p13:3f1;c11:4f1;c13:4f1;
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 04:29:08 AM by man-man » Logged
PleasingFungus
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« Reply #338 on: June 26, 2010, 02:09:08 PM »

One gripe. This passes the Malevolence Engine's tests (as of 1.30f), without complaining about cheating:
http://goo.gl/2coP
Heh. Perhaps against my better judgement, I've instructed the Malevolence Engine to grow ever more intolerant towards such tomfoolery. That solution will not work in the next version.

By any chance, do you have a donation bin or store for me to show my support? If not, at least put up Robotoast pins, or something. Smiley

Ooo, pins! I like the idea of that. But no - all I have is a donate link at the bottom of the page. Much less exciting.

...Cafepress sells custom pins...

-

Unrelated - there are interesting things going on at both the xkcd thread and the TAS thread.
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Finished games: Manufactoria! International King of Wine!
And others on my site.
Mercen4ry
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« Reply #339 on: June 26, 2010, 02:44:32 PM »

*
It's appreciated.

Actually, I should have mentioned that these solutions are far from optimal. They are, however, compact and readable -- which was my primary motivation beyond solving them.* Wink

--
* Except for my solution to Level 20, where I combined my solutions for Level 19 and Level 29. Ninja
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