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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperPlaytestingManufactoria: A Game About Putting Robots In Their Place
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Xecutor
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« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2010, 11:17:47 PM »

IMO 'Robotic children' is more generalized case of 'Robotic academics'.
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Xecutor
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« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2010, 11:29:27 PM »

When returning from level, initial short tooltips for levels where tooltips have two lines
only first line is shown (i.e. 'Test robotic').
Steps to reproduce:
Enter level 'Robotic schoolteachers'.
Press 'back' button.
Move cursor to 'Robotic schoolteachers' level without touching any other levels.
Hint says 'Test robotic'.

I can't get what 'Robotic schoolteachers'  want. I tried different possible ways if interpretation of given task,
but all solutions failed.

And please recheck robotic admirals test cases
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 12:02:32 AM by Xecutor » Logged
Draknek
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« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2010, 01:45:35 AM »

This thing is eating my life!

First testcase for robotic schoolteachers seems to be broken. Input: BRR, expected output: RBB

The feedback on failure makes is a massive improvement. Hand Thumbs Up Left Hand Thumbs Up Right
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« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2010, 09:32:34 AM »

Didn't noticed that you replied.
Looks like delay of level description depends on speed of last test run Smiley
Awesome! Looks like I wasn't cleaning that up correctly. Fixed!

IMO 'Robotic children' is more generalized case of 'Robotic academics'.
Basically!

When returning from level, initial short tooltips for levels where tooltips have two lines
only first line is shown (i.e. 'Test robotic').
Steps to reproduce:
Enter level 'Robotic schoolteachers'.
Press 'back' button.
Move cursor to 'Robotic schoolteachers' level without touching any other levels.
Hint says 'Test robotic'.
I'd noticed that bug, but hadn't been able to reproduce it. That is... really strange. Same thing happens with Academics, but not with most other levels...

Seems to be a really weird rendering glitch with text going off the side of the screen and not linewrapping correctly (initially?). The tooltip holds the correct text, it's just not displaying the last word...

Okay, wow, I have no idea what's going on there. I'm going to put this aside and move on for the moment; I'll come back to it later.

I can't get what 'Robotic schoolteachers'  want. I tried different possible ways if interpretation of given task,
but all solutions failed.
My first test case was buggy. Sad Try again!

And please recheck robotic admirals test cases
Checked! They all look right to me.

First testcase for robotic schoolteachers seems to be broken. Input: BRR, expected output: RBB
Fixed!

That's all for now, True Believers. Keep on sortin' those robots!

(I think a solid majority of the bugs reported here have been in my test cases.)

(...it is possible that I should begin proofreading them more thoroughly.)
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« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2010, 12:05:13 PM »

First testcase for robotic schoolteachers seems to be broken. Input: BRR, expected output: RBB
Fixed!

Still broken: BRR reversed is RRB not RBB. I think this is a solution to the level; certainly it should pass the first test.

(I think a solid majority of the bugs reported here have been in my test cases.)

What I find interesting is that it implies that you haven't solved some of these levels yourself. Do you not have a solution for each level that you can use to test that it works?

Although I know that personally I spend a lot of time testing that a level is still completable after every small change I make, so maybe that's just a better use of time...
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« Reply #65 on: April 13, 2010, 12:18:22 PM »

First testcase for robotic schoolteachers seems to be broken. Input: BRR, expected output: RBB
Fixed!

Still broken: BRR reversed is RRB not RBB. I think this is a solution to the level; certainly it should pass the first test.
Things which I forgot to do: actually upload the new version.

Try it now.

(I think a solid majority of the bugs reported here have been in my test cases.)

What I find interesting is that it implies that you haven't solved some of these levels yourself. Do you not have a solution for each level that you can use to test that it works?

Although I know that personally I spend a lot of time testing that a level is still completable after every small change I make, so maybe that's just a better use of time...

I know that every level is, in principle, solvable. (Assuming I can avoid making stupid typos in the test cases.) I've beaten all of the early ones in-game, and I've solved all of the problems with the theoretical model the game is based on. (For the record, the machine in-game is a Queue machine; I used a two-stack PDA early in development, but it was much clunkier in many ways.) Due to save-instability in development, I've lost the vast majority of the machines I did make in-game.

So, no, I actually don't have a solution for each level. As you well know, it takes a significant amount of time to make these things. I operated on the assumption that I'd be able to code them well enough that they wouldn't need testing...

(For future levels, I think I will reconsider this approach.)
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« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2010, 12:20:11 PM »

http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=10&code=c12:3f3;g12:2f3;p12:4f3;q13:4f2;b10:4f1;r14:4f1;c14:3f0;i13:3f2;c10:3f2;c11:3f2;b13:2f2;c14:2f2;c15:2f3;c15:3f3;c15:4f3;q11:4f0;y11:5f3;c15:5f3;c11:6f2;q12:5f3;b13:5f3;c12:6f2;c13:6f2;c14:6f2;g15:6f3;c15:7f3;c15:8f3;p15:9f3;q16:9f2;c16:8f2;i17:8f3;c18:8f3;c18:12f3;c18:13f0;c17:13f0;c16:13f0;c15:13f0;c14:13f0;c13:13f0;r17:9f1;c17:7f0;c16:7f0;q14:9f0;b13:8f2;i14:8f3;r18:9f3;c13:9f1;b14:12f3;i14:10f1;b13:10f1;c18:10f3;c18:11f3;b12:11f1;c12:9f1;c12:8f1;i12:7f0;r12:10f1;c14:7f0;c13:7f0;c11:7f3;c11:8f3;y11:9f0;p10:9f0;b10:8f3;r10:10f1;q9:9f0;g9:10f3;c9:11f3;p9:12f3;q10:12f2;c11:11f0;c10:11f0;r11:12f1;q8:12f0;i8:11f4;b7:12f1;c7:11f2;c9:13f0;c8:13f0;c7:13f0;c8:8f1;p8:7f1;b9:7f0;r7:7f2;q8:6f3;y7:6f0;c6:6f3;c6:7f3;c7:8f2;c6:8f2;c9:6f2;c10:6f2;c6:13f1;c6:12f1;c6:11f1;c8:9f1;r10:13f0;b7:9f1;b8:10f0;c7:10f0;q13:11f1;i14:11f1;c16:10f0;i15:10f6;q15:11f3;y6:10f1;c6:9f2;

Link to my solution for Admirals.  It tells me the output for the one it fails on should have been four blues, which is what my output is.  Please check it.


As far as testing levels out, I think we might be able to do that job for you, I enjoy the challenge.
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« Reply #67 on: April 13, 2010, 03:33:20 PM »

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

excellent use of size=1pt

It tells me the output for the one it fails on should have been four blues, which is what my output is.  Please check it.
Just spent way too long hunting this bug down (and nailing another one on the way - my 'leading red trimmer' didn't actually work - and the problem's wasn't actually in the tests at all. Your machine is supposed to fail. The bug was in the error-message _formatting_, of all things:

Code:
for (var i:int = 1; i < _accepts.length; i++)
    out += ", " + COLORS[_accepts.charAt(1)];
Code:
for (var i:int = 1; i < _accepts.length; i++)
    out += ", " + COLORS[_accepts.charAt(i)];

Spot the difference!

(It's fixed now.)

As far as testing levels out, I think we might be able to do that job for you, I enjoy the challenge.
Every time I release a broken level - and find out that it was broken - it makes me sad. It's a violation of the Sacred Code binding Developer to Player - the Player will play the Developer's difficult levels, so long as they can actually be beaten! If the Player discovers that they are not, they rightly see it a betrayal of the grossest kind.

...but this is the Feedback forum, so I guess it's okay?
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Draknek
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« Reply #68 on: April 13, 2010, 03:53:18 PM »

Try it now.

Still broken. It says the output should have been RRB and that's what I'm providing. Same testcase.

I quite like your approach of proving on paper that a level is possible and then leaving it to someone else to actually implement. Are you a mathematician by any chance? But yeah, bugs in the verification stage are annoying once you've built a machine you think should work.

Bug: when running at 60x speed the tape isn't rendered properly. I don't mind too much when running but it's annoying if a test fails when you were running at 60x and you can't see what your output actually was.

Going back to the level robotic androids, you seem to have added some very long tests: it takes forever to verify. Or my new solution is much less efficient than my original one. Are the long tests necessary?
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« Reply #69 on: April 13, 2010, 04:57:40 PM »

Try it now.

Still broken. It says the output should have been RRB and that's what I'm providing. Same testcase.
Well, at least it's broken in a different way!

Turns out I had some levels set as binary that shouldn't have been - it didn't do anything until I actually got the leading-red-trimmer working, at which case it broke things. Anyway, I fixed it, and your machine works now. Congrats!

I quite like your approach of proving on paper that a level is possible and then leaving it to someone else to actually implement. Are you a mathematician by any chance?
Nope! I was taking a class on this sort of thing, in which we had to diagram out solutions for various problems. (Many of which show up in the game.) And I realized - "Hey, this is pretty fun! I bet I could make a game out of this!"

About five weeks later: Manufactoria!

Bug: when running at 60x speed the tape isn't rendered properly. I don't mind too much when running but it's annoying if a test fails when you were running at 60x and you can't see what your output actually was.
I'm not too surprised. There's some pretty shady stuff going on with the tape-rendering. (The "symbol-wraps-around-the-edge-of-the-tape" thing is actually a canned animation. Tends to break if I breathe on it too hard.) I think I've mentioned that my next priority is a replacement for the current 'you failed!' message - a fullscreen thing with the strings represented graphically - so that should mostly solve the problem, I think.

(On the subject of graphical glitches - check out the places accepting-robots end up at 60x! They slide.)

Going back to the level robotic androids, you seem to have added some very long tests: it takes forever to verify. Or my new solution is much less efficient than my original one. Are the long tests necessary?
They aren't necessary. I was dueling with Tobias a few pages back (and a fellow called 'Lippy', by IM), but I guess that's pretty much settled now...

Hm.

I'll have to consider it!
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« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2010, 11:54:23 PM »

Yey!

Great game I enjoyed it very much!

Challenge of last level was mostly about space.
Here is my compact solution to Schoolteachers level:
http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=23&code=g12:3f3;y12:2f3;c12:4f3;p12:5f3;p11:5f0;b11:4f3;r11:6f1;q10:5f0;c10:4f0;c11:3f2;p13:5f2;r13:4f3;b13:6f1;q14:5f2;c15:5f1;p15:4f1;b16:4f0;r14:4f2;q15:3f1;c14:3f0;c13:3f0;c12:12f3;y14:6f2;r15:6f1;c12:11f3;q11:2f0;p10:2f2;r10:1f3;b10:3f1;y9:4f1;c9:3f1;p12:7f3;b11:7f2;r13:7f0;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;b9:2f2;q12:6f2;q12:8f0;

I wish there is a copy&paste tool, so admirals can be solved by reversing, incrementing in one pass, and
reversing back Smiley

Do you plan to add sandbox/level editor?
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« Reply #71 on: April 14, 2010, 12:13:37 AM »

New (?) problem with old level: http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=17&code=p12:6f3;b11:6f2;r13:6f0;c12:4f3;c12:8f3;c12:9f3;c12:10f3;g12:5f3;y12:7f3;

(Or am I interpreting it wrong?)
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« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2010, 02:45:22 AM »


Congratulations! You are now the first person to beat Manufactoria. (As far as I know.) I actually uploaded a version with three more levels just before checking on the thread, but it still counts. You win! You are the winner.

I wish there is a copy&paste tool, so admirals can be solved by reversing, incrementing in one pass, and
reversing back Smiley
Haha, I'd never even thought of that solution! You could always do it by loading the level code and then tacking on the incrementation code... it's not quite as good, though!

(My current ideas for a copy-paste function:
 1) Shift-drag to create a selection-box; shift-click to paste the current selection.
 2) Shift-click/drag to 'mark' components; ctrl(?)-click to paste. (Or 'v'...?)
 ...neither of those sound that great, though. Can't just click and drag, because that already has a (very useful!) function...)

Do you plan to add sandbox/level editor?
My brother's been urging me to! There are a couple of technical obstacles involved; the format for saving custom levels (pretty trivial, actually, thinking about it now), and moreso the, well, loading a custom level thing (there's a lot of assumptions in the code that the current level will be within a certain hardcoded list)... nothing insurmountable, though. Or even that bad.

I'm not certain that I will, but it'd certainly add a lot of longevity to the game, I think. It's a good goal.

There's certainly a problem there, either with the failure-message or the tests. (As usual.) It's 3:40 AM here, so I won't spend long looking...

...okay, I think I've fixed it. (That level works now, at least.) Let me know if you encounter any more problems, especially with green/yellows in output.

When I get up tomorrow, if ever, I'll have more to contribute. Thanks for the feedback, as ever!
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« Reply #73 on: April 14, 2010, 03:41:13 AM »

I really like this game so far. Like constructing DFAs, except having to deal with spatial constraints.  Smiley

Yellow and green are mixed up in the hovercar, zeppelin, and lasershark levels. (Haven't had time to beat it, so there are probably more.) Really confusing since the TEXT (level description AND failure text) matches, but the succeed/fail LOGIC is inverted.

Edit: Might be helpful if there were some way to change the speed when not playing a level. If the speed gets stuck on 64x and you fail immediately, it's tricky to return to normal speed.

Edit2: Well, not quite DFAs, since you can write bits. Know for sure that the "equal number of reds and blues" one isn't a regular language (at least for unbounded input strings). Tired

Edit3: It would also be helpful in some of the later puzzles to know upfront whether the input is just red/blue or if it could contain green/yellow.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 03:40:36 PM by Noyb » Logged

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« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2010, 01:05:36 PM »

Two new broken levels (refreshed swf to make sure it was the newest version) Sad

Robotic laser sharks breaks on the first test, doesn't accept green blue yellow even though the error message says that's what it expected (example)

Robotic marshalls gives blue red blue blue in one of the tests and expects blue blue blue red, which doesn't sound right.. my solution (link) gets blue red blue red which should be right, but that's rejected.

About the selection interface, you could add two new tools .. one to select areas, and one to move selections (copy to buffer, clear area, paste from buffer on release), or individual objects if there's no selection.  Then you can hotkey one to shift and the other to ctrl or something.  (If you hotkey select to ctrl-drag, hitting ctrl+c or ctrl+x for copy/cut would come pretty naturally.)

Also, about the robots outside grid not getting deleted bug, can't reproduce it now. Maybe you fixed it? Smiley
« Last Edit: April 14, 2010, 02:06:27 PM by mjau » Logged
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« Reply #75 on: April 14, 2010, 03:05:03 PM »

Hello there. First of all, awesome game! A couple of suggestions:
  • I assume the ordering of the levels is intended to be easy on the left to hard on the right. Seems like a couple of them are out of place, eg the generals level is trivial but it's way over on the right (and has a really big work area)!
  • Simple examples of accepted/rejected input or transformations (depending on the level type) would be really useful. Not sure that there's room in the UI, so maybe they could go in the ? menu (which admittedly is also full atm Tongue)
  • The level names have no real meaning (or at least not to me :D), so it's difficult to find one you remember doing earlier (I can only remember the content of the levels, not the names)
  • The way you delete things wasn't obvious, maybe you should add that to the help screen, or add a garbage can icon to the UI (which would have the same effect as clicking on the background)?
  • The ability to "single-step" the machine might be useful (although I guess you can sort-of do that with the pause button)
Also, the robotic polar bears level won't accept my machine Cry. It says "This robot should have been accepted, with an output string of (Blue, Yellow, Blue)! Input was (Blue, Blue). Click to continue!" My machine (go-go gadget size=1pt http://pleasingfungus.com/?lvl=26&code=y12:2f3;y12:3f3;q13:4f3;q12:4f3;p12:5f3;r13:5f3;b11:5f3;y12:6f3;c11:6f2;c13:6f0;p12:7f3;q13:7f7;b10:9f2;b12:9f2;r14:8f0;r12:8f0;y12:10f2;c13:10f2;c14:10f2;c15:10f2;y14:7f1;r14:6f2;p15:6f1;b16:6f0;c16:10f1;c16:9f1;c16:8f1;c16:7f1;c11:7f3;c11:8f3;c11:4f0;c10:4f0;c9:4f3;c9:5f3;c9:6f3;c9:7f3;c9:8f3;c9:9f3;c9:10f3;c9:11f3;p10:12f2;y9:12f2;r10:11f3;b10:13f1;q12:12f2;c11:12f2;p11:9f3;p13:8f5;q11:10f1;q15:5f0;p14:4f4;y15:4f0;b14:5f1;r14:3f3;) does output BYB for the first robot!
Anyway, keep up the awesome Wink This could be a really good educational game (why does that always sound so cheesy?) for comp sci students...
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« Reply #76 on: April 14, 2010, 08:42:12 PM »

First, the news: I've put out a major update! The placeholder failure-message has been replaced with a great big Failure Screen, and there's a new Success Screen that gives some stats on your solution! They're both works in progress - I'm planning on adding a lot more to the Success Screen (saved stats! A copy of the level code, to make it easier to share!), and I'm informed that the Failure Screen is obnoxious enough that it ought to be moved. But enough of that - try it out for yourself! Tell me what you think! (And there's those three new levels from 3:40 AM this morning, too, if you've not seen those. Go forth!)

-

I really like this game so far. Like constructing DFAs, except having to deal with spatial constraints.  Smiley

...


Edit2: Well, not quite DFAs, since you can write bits. Know for sure that the "equal number of reds and blues" one isn't a regular language (at least for unbounded input strings). Tired
Yeah, the game's based on a more advanced variant of DFAs. I talked about it a few posts back.

Yellow and green are mixed up in the hovercar, zeppelin, and lasershark levels. (Haven't had time to beat it, so there are probably more.) Really confusing since the TEXT (level description AND failure text) matches, but the succeed/fail LOGIC is inverted.
This is a combination of me trying to debug at 3:40 AM, and TobiasW blaming the game for his machine being broken. (Though, admittedly, if he did that consistently, he'd have about a 90% success rate.) Regardless: I'm blaming TobiasW!

Edit: Might be helpful if there were some way to change the speed when not playing a level. If the speed gets stuck on 64x and you fail immediately, it's tricky to return to normal speed.
I've set it to reset speed whenever you fail a level. You can (and could) also return to the main menu to reset your speed, though that's kinda unintuitive. Let me know if I should do anything more.

Edit3: It would also be helpful in some of the later puzzles to know upfront whether the input is just red/blue or if it could contain green/yellow.
It'll always be red/blue! That is part of my contract with the player. (I might break it some-day, but I'd be very careful to warn the player beforehand.) I've had an Informational Slideshow planned for a while, to explain that, but there've always been more pressing things to do! (Plus, the art involved is a bit of a bottleneck for me.) Sorry about the confusion; I promise I'll clarify it in-game some day!

-

Two new broken levels (refreshed swf to make sure it was the newest version) Sad

Robotic laser sharks breaks on the first test, doesn't accept green blue yellow even though the error message says that's what it expected (example)
TobiasW!

Robotic marshalls gives blue red blue blue in one of the tests and expects blue blue blue red, which doesn't sound right.. my solution (link) gets blue red blue red which should be right, but that's rejected.
Typo! I'd double-check your machine, though. It's giving me red-blue-red-blue, which doesn't seem quite right!

About the selection interface, you could add two new tools .. one to select areas, and one to move selections (copy to buffer, clear area, paste from buffer on release), or individual objects if there's no selection.  Then you can hotkey one to shift and the other to ctrl or something.  (If you hotkey select to ctrl-drag, hitting ctrl+c or ctrl+x for copy/cut would come pretty naturally.)
Interesting idea! The problem with that approach is that you'd naturally expect shift or ctrl (and the associated 'tools') to work as modifiers. That is, once you stop holding down the relevant key, it goes back to a 'neutral' mode. If you selected them as tools from the UI-bar, on the other hand, you'd expect them to keep working until you deselected them!

I think the basic idea - select and drag as basic tools - is a really good one, though. I'll see about putting it in!

Also, about the robots outside grid not getting deleted bug, can't reproduce it now. Maybe you fixed it? Smiley
Someone got a screenshot of it in the other thread, which showed me enough for me to be able to fix it. Thanks anyway!

-


I assume the ordering of the levels is intended to be easy on the left to hard on the right. Seems like a couple of them are out of place, eg the generals level is trivial but it's way over on the right (and has a really big work area)!
I thought it'd be harder!

(The placement of the levels on the main menu is actually algorithmically determined. I'm super proud of it! But you're still right.)
Simple examples of accepted/rejected input or transformations (depending on the level type) would be really useful. Not sure that there's room in the UI, so maybe they could go in the ? menu (which admittedly is also full atm Tongue)
Very reasonable request. It's on the List now!

(The help screen (? menu) probably wants to be expanded to multiple pages, and to absorb / merge with the cutscene-selector while it's at it. Not totally sure about the details there... I'll probably let the idea gestate for a little while.)

The level names have no real meaning (or at least not to me :D), so it's difficult to find one you remember doing earlier (I can only remember the content of the levels, not the names)
The names aren't really connected to the content of the levels at present, yeah. (With a very few exceptions.) Do the robo-pictures (the dog, the fly, etc) help?

The way you delete things wasn't obvious, maybe you should add that to the help screen, or add a garbage can icon to the UI (which would have the same effect as clicking on the background)?
Yeah, you aren't the first one to find it confusing. There's not much space in the UI for a garbage-can (especially if the select/drag tools end up finding their home in the UI-bar).... perhaps I could add a (cosmetic) one to the background, somewhere...? I'll think about it!

The ability to "single-step" the machine might be useful (although I guess you can sort-of do that with the pause button)
Interesting idea! For figuring out how components work early-on, and for analyzing complex, dense constructions later... you could probably bind it to 'space', make that enter the mode / move one step... the play button could change to a dot (?), and you could click it to go back to 1x speed...

The trick would be teaching players that it existed (probably add a hint when you first enter 'run' mode, and slap it down somewhere on the help screen as well), and it is, as features go, a little bit bloat-y... but I like it!

Also, the robotic polar bears level won't accept my machine Cry.
Hand Shake LeftTobiasW! Hand Shake Right

(it is very hard to phonetically render the sound of a drawn-out, despairing, TobiasW-ward yell)

(because of the W)

(but I am doing my best)


-

And that's all!
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« Reply #77 on: April 15, 2010, 02:40:34 AM »

Yellow and green are mixed up in the hovercar, zeppelin, and lasershark levels. (Haven't had time to beat it, so there are probably more.) Really confusing since the TEXT (level description AND failure text) matches, but the succeed/fail LOGIC is inverted.
This is a combination of me trying to debug at 3:40 AM, and TobiasW blaming the game for his machine being broken. (Though, admittedly, if he did that consistently, he'd have about a 90% success rate.) Regardless: I'm blaming TobiasW!
I feel very proud now! Beer!


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Two new broken levels (refreshed swf to make sure it was the newest version) Sad

Robotic laser sharks breaks on the first test, doesn't accept green blue yellow even though the error message says that's what it expected (example)
TobiasW!
Yeah? Oh, this looks exactly like the very bug I reported in first place Tongue (Nice machine, by the way. Looks nearly exactly like mine, too.)


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Also, the robotic polar bears level won't accept my machine Cry.
Hand Shake LeftTobiasW! Hand Shake Right

(it is very hard to phonetically render the sound of a drawn-out, despairing, TobiasW-ward yell)

(because of the W)

(but I am doing my best)
So THAT'S why I awoke in the middle of the night!
Okay, I allow you to cut the "W", this should make things easier for you. If you experience any other bugs with my name, please tell me right away.
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mjau
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« Reply #78 on: April 15, 2010, 02:44:07 AM »

Typo! I'd double-check your machine, though. It's giving me red-blue-red-blue, which doesn't seem quite right!
Ye gods, you're right!  I'd blame TobiasW, but poor guy. (easy fix though)

Btw, i think the expected/got outputs are swapped on the failure screen, at least for color outputs.  (Also, being able to replay the failed sequence from the failure screen would be great.)

Interesting idea! The problem with that approach is that you'd naturally expect shift or ctrl (and the associated 'tools') to work as modifiers. That is, once you stop holding down the relevant key, it goes back to a 'neutral' mode. If you selected them as tools from the UI-bar, on the other hand, you'd expect them to keep working until you deselected them!
Yeah, i didn't articulate it very well but that's basically what i meant.  It'd make it possible to use the selection/move interface with only the mouse if you wanted to, but also allow faster, more convenient access using the hotkeys modifier keys.  If the selection tool was already selected and you hold the selection modifier, nothing would happen, but that's not really a problem.  (You could also select the select tool and then use the move modifier to quickly swap between the two if you've got many areas you want to move.)

Edit: Whew, beat the last one!  Hydras .. what a monstrosity Epileptic
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 10:18:55 AM by mjau » Logged
PleasingFungus
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« Reply #79 on: April 15, 2010, 02:22:11 PM »

So THAT'S why I awoke in the middle of the night!
Okay, I allow you to cut the "W", this should make things easier for you. If you experience any other bugs with my name, please tell me right away.
I'll be sure to.

Typo! I'd double-check your machine, though. It's giving me red-blue-red-blue, which doesn't seem quite right!
Ye gods, you're right!  I'd blame TobiasW, but poor guy. (easy fix though)

Btw, i think the expected/got outputs are swapped on the failure screen, at least for color outputs.
I was messing around with layout for quite a while - guess I forgot to swap those. Fixed!

(Also, being able to replay the failed sequence from the failure screen would be great.)
Done! (Icon and text are placeholders, but it'll work.)

Interesting idea! The problem with that approach is that you'd naturally expect shift or ctrl (and the associated 'tools') to work as modifiers. That is, once you stop holding down the relevant key, it goes back to a 'neutral' mode. If you selected them as tools from the UI-bar, on the other hand, you'd expect them to keep working until you deselected them!
Yeah, i didn't articulate it very well but that's basically what i meant.  It'd make it possible to use the selection/move interface with only the mouse if you wanted to, but also allow faster, more convenient access using the hotkeys modifier keys.  If the selection tool was already selected and you hold the selection modifier, nothing would happen, but that's not really a problem.  (You could also select the select tool and then use the move modifier to quickly swap between the two if you've got many areas you want to move.)
Hm. Kinda worried about intuitiveness, again...

Only way to find out is to try it!

(I'll post when I've implemented something, naturally.)

Edit: Whew, beat the last one!  Hydras .. what a monstrosity Epileptic
Congrats! I'm glad you like it.
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Finished games: Manufactoria! International King of Wine!
And others on my site.
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