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[Dragonmaw]

There are obvious exceptions to every rule. But for every character I can think of that is ranked highly on a tier list that is excessively complicated/difficult to use, I can think of others that aren't. For example, while Eddie is highly ranked in Guilty Gear and is admittedly a bit difficult, Jam and Slayer are ranked highly as well and are not nearly as hard to learn as Eddie.

For Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, Yun, Yang, Ken, Makoto, and Dudley are all fairly easy to learn. Chun Li is the only real difficult top tier character.

In regards to Abel, I always found him relatively simple and straightforward, but that's just me. Fei is a far more complicated character.

You sort of answer yourself in your reply with "Complexity does not factor into tier listing, only visible power does. Simple characters are universally simple." Excessively complicated characters, which are rarely used in high levels of play but are potentially (theoretically) very strong, don't show their power as much. Tier lists constructed from tournament wins/losses tend to favor characters that have a lot of options but which are relatively simple to learn and understand. You're right, it's a matter of factoring said options. But you also have to factor in the practicality of said options. So while Strider Hiryu is an exceptionally powerful character with tons of options in MvC2, he is ranked in the second-highest tier due to the difficulty of strong play with him. Comparatively, it's far easier to play well with Sentinel or Cable than it is to play Strider.

When I say simple, I don't mean simple in the sense that a character is a single gimmick and has straightforward moves. I mean that characters are easy to learn and perform moves with. In the heat of battle it's impossible - even for the most rigorous and talented of fighting game players - to pull off moves with 100% accuracy. Thus, tier lists tend to favor characters that are easier to learn and perform than their counterparts due to a practicality purpose. Assuming humans were actually robots, then the complicated characters with shitloads of difficult to perform options would reign supreme. But we aren't, and in order to stay competitive you have to get rid of as much unnecessary nonsense as possible in order to focus on the flow, not the details, of a fight.

[Dustin Smith]

so i normally don't play capcom fighting games, but i really like this! after mucking about in training mode and facebook chatting my SF-loving buddy i got the hang of things quickly. i'm currently running Zero/Haggar/Wolverine, but wolvey is too noob of a character. i tried arthur out and he looks interesting, lack of dash is a bit of a concern but he seems to have quite the varied attack pattern. i want to play spidey but he isn't working too hot for me right now. any tips?

suprisingly i'm the best player in my group of friends. this is indeed my gateway drug.

[[RM8]]

I play Arthur too, he's fun, spammy and hilarious.

[BoxedLunch]

lately i've been going as deadpool/crimson viper/dante. i felt so proud once i figured out two buttons next to each other means press them at the same time, not after each other.

[Superb Joe]

so i normally don't play capcom fighting games, but i really like this! after mucking about in training mode and facebook chatting my SF-loving buddy i got the hang of things quickly. i'm currently running Zero/Haggar/Wolverine, but wolvey is too noob of a character. i tried arthur out and he looks interesting, lack of dash is a bit of a concern but he seems to have quite the varied attack pattern. i want to play spidey but he isn't working too hot for me right now. any tips?

suprisingly i'm the best player in my group of friends. this is indeed my gateway drug.

first off, i don't know what your problem with wolverine is because he's fucking awesome. pair him with an assist that's fast and controls a lot of horizontal space and he's an absolute nightmare. watch the first match of this video



spiderman is all about web zip pressure and resets into ultimate web throw. uwt is unblockable but only hits airborne opponents, so get into training mode and figure out a combo that makes the opponent auto tech in the air and boom, free super. maximum spider is great too because you can combo into it so easily and it's so easy to dhc out after you've gotten all the hits.

[Dustin Smith]

i was just suprised at how easy it was to play him, he's a good character but i was hoping for something a little bit more nuanced. everybody i play against just runs wolvey/akuma/dante so i thought i'd change my proverbial pitch up. i'll check out that assist strategy though.

i understand your vernacular, but that'll be quite the undertaking for me. i love how deep these kind of fighters get -- i realize that this isn't as nuanced as, say, a main street fighter game but its fun devouring new characters.

[Superb Joe]

it's wolverine. what kind of nuance were you expecting? he has great mobility, super fast crossup tricks, instant overhead on the entire cast, speedup super, speedup super cancelling, double relaunch assist combos into level 3 super and is an absolute rushdown machine. i can't believe you play as zero but consider wolverine too easy.

akuma assist beefs him up dramatically which is why so many people use it, but i don't like akuma

i realize that this isn't as nuanced as, say, a main street fighter game but its fun devouring new characters.

i think you're confusing the overt reliance on links in sf4 with actual intricacy of design, there's so much more for a player to manage in a marvel game that it's inherently more nuanced

[Dustin Smith]

heh, john goodman yelling "you're out of your element, donnie" seems appropriate here. i wish i knew more about what i'm talking about. give it time.

[Superb Joe]

well here's the kind of stuff you can do with spiderman

[Dustin Smith]

thanks for all your help man.

and i play zero because i loved the megaman X games way too much. *cue cheesy grin*

[Toom]

Although she's kind of a shitty character in the comics, I've had a lot of fun with X-23 in my limited experience with MvC3; she's rapid as fuck and is a massive hassle to deal with on the ground, although her stamina's kind of low.

[jwk5]

My favorite combo thus far is Crimson Viper, Amaterasu, and Morrigan. Sometimes I will substitute Morrigan or Crimson Viper with Jill, X-23, Chun Li, or Storm.

Thor is about a useless character, which is really disappointing. Even more disappointing is that they didn't make his DLC costume a Beta Ray Bill form. The first DLC costumes pack in general really isn't worth it (the only decent one in the bunch is Captain America's mask-less one).

The Shadow Battles DLC was kind of disappointing too, fairly pointless other than to get the 3 extra titles (but at least it is free).

[gimymblert]

[Superb Joe]

thor has some juice you just have to have the presence of mind to be able to use every single one of his options and every single one of his gimmicks at exactly the right time. or you could just pick sentinel.

[[RM8]]

I recently played through Final Fight 3 with a friend (it was lots of fun), so last night I tried Haggar in MvC3 and he's a really fun character. He may replace Akuma/Ryu in my team, which are pretty much my "I don't actually like them but I know how they play" characters.

[mankoon]

I'm pretty sure my fingerprint on my thumb is gone by now. Maybe I should get an arcade stick. Not that I think it's superior... but it would also help since it seems at conventions they set up the arcade stick as the default. ... and maybe my thumb wouldn't hurt so badly. Or maybe I just suck at doing the correct motion.

[jwk5]

I'm pretty sure my fingerprint on my thumb is gone by now. Maybe I should get an arcade stick. Not that I think it's superior... but it would also help since it seems at conventions they set up the arcade stick as the default. ... and maybe my thumb wouldn't hurt so badly. Or maybe I just suck at doing the correct motion.

I use the Street Fighter 4 controller (which resembles a Sega Genesis controller). It is a nice happy medium between PS3 controller and an arcade stick and is much less finger-cramping. The one I ended up getting is the Cammy one (it was either that or Ken) so every time I pick up the controller I am staring at Cammy's ass (the pose she's in on the controller literally has her sticking her ass out at you). I'm not complaining, though.

[Superb Joe]

congrats to all of you shitty idiots who couldnt be bothered to put half an hour into training mode to learn how to fight sentinel

[jwk5]

While I miss the old MvC2 Jill, the new Jill is a fuckin' BEAST! She has so many ways to get around the enemy, her D+D+ATK move allows her to get under most attacks that aren't floor-level and then immediately launch into a counter.

In other news, Galactus and his two minions are total pricks on Very Hard. Nothing like getting him down to a tiny sliver of health barely visible and having him suddenly unleash an endless beam-spam hell.

I've realized the AI on Normal difficulty is really retarded when it comes to Amaterasu's QCF+ATK bead weapon attack. You can just spray the AI over and over with it as they struggle in vain to get anywhere near you. Storm's QCF+ATK wind buffet (I forget the name of it) is equally effective at spamming the AI and has the added bonus of repeatedly pushing them back to the edge of the screen.

Though if you're wanting to take out Galactus easy then go with Amaterasu and Chun Li, and then whatever character you are trying to get an ending with. They both can, for the most part, safely and rapidly chip him down to barely any health so you can finish him off with the other characters (and his two minions are especially stupid when it comes to Amaterasu's bead sprays).


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Do you play it on PS3 or XBOX360 Superb Joe? And what is your favorite character to use (and what team do you use for that matter)? Right now my favorite character is probably Crimson Viper and the team I am using is Crimson Viper, X-23, and Morrigan.

[Dragonmaw]

congrats to all of you shitty idiots who couldnt be bothered to put half an hour into training mode to learn how to fight sentinel

spoken like a true sentinel player