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[M]

indiePub (formerly 2beegames) is running a competition until July 31st. The grand prize winner gets $100,000.

http://www.indiepubgames.com/news.php?id=2

[swarmer]

This contest is worth entering; I won a prize (money + publishing deal) in the first one.

[Radix]

Full disclosure, this is 2beegames renamed.

The previous competitions didn't get a lot of love here because the terms & conditions basically stated "we can do whatever the fuck we want with your submission whether you win or not". I haven't looked at the fine print on this one, has it improved?

[sergiocornaga]

I'm guessing this is the area in question in their current massive, daunting list of rules:

Entrants retain ownership of the Games they submit, however, by entering you, on behalf of yourself and any Third Party Creators, grant Contest Entities the perpetual, fully-paid, irrevocable, non-exclusive license to display, exhibit, modify for use on our websites, transmit, the Games in any manner, form, or format now or hereinafter created, including on the internet, and for the purpose, of the Contest Entities and the Contest Entities' goods and/or services limited to, the hosting of the games on the site, advertising or promotion of the Contest and the Contest Website without further consent from or payment to you, Third Party Creators or any other third parties.

Doesn't sound too terrible.

[Radix]

To me its ounds like a pretty terrible thing to sign off on for a game you think is worth a $100,000 publishing deal. Including but not limited to the part which seems to imply permission to decompile and modify your game.

...And I'm wondering if something like this could potentially stick a dick in the mashed potatoes of a future publishing agreement with another party.

I mean I'd tend to give these guys the benefit of the doubt, it's a fantastic opportunity with a nice prize and nobody has cried foul about their previous two compos that I'm aware of, but I wouldn't want devs to get used to agreeing to these sorts of carte blanche terms.

[swarmer]

Here is some in-depth explanation of the rules: http://www.indiepubgames.com/news/contest-rules-explanation

I'm the guy who wrote that, by the way.  I can honestly say it's a genuine opportunity, because I have signed my own game with them, and it's going great.  I got a job with them after the first contest.

To answer your question, they only get permission to use your game for the purpose of the contest, like promotions and such.

It's really not in our interest to steal IP and screw people over, because the whole idea is to generate goodwill with indies and to provide them with a stable business pipeline.  We (and you) make money when developers partner with us to put some awesome games out there, so it's in our best interest to make you guys comfortable and happy.  If any rules are scary, I can see to it that they get changed.

[Radix]

Wait, so... the winner of the first contest is an employee of the company?

Heh, I'm just playing devil's advocate here, because as I said I don't like the precedent. If you could do something about those terms then yeah that would be great because the way I'm reading it there's definitely enough flexibility there to screw people over despite your assurances, which means I myself would not feel comfortable entering without legal advice. That's something which the average indie can't afford, so entrants are either leaving themselves exposed or simply not entering, which is bad for everyone.

My other point was, expecting young indies to agree to something like this is potentially softening them up to be screwed over in the future by someone who doesn't have such generous intentions.

[moi]

That sound like a standard clause to protect themselves and although it does give them the right to do what they want with the game, I think you'll find a similar clause in all contests.
That said I think this contest is lame because inherently all "make it big" contests are lame.
If you can make a game that is good enough to win $100000, you'd be better off exploiting it by yourself.
And if you're not good enough to win, you'd be wasting your time too anyway.

Contest with prizes are stupid and they're a way to have your hard work exploited. If you want to be in "the industry" don't enter a contest. Only go in a contest if it is just for fun.

That said maybe it's actually an easy way to win $100000, who knows. Looking at the previous ocntest entrants and winner would be a good way to judge of the competition, unfortunately, it seems to have been wiped off the internet.

[swarmer]

Wait, so... the winner of the first contest is an employee of the company?

I won the contest in my last year of college, and then once I graduated I joined the company.

Heh, I'm just playing devil's advocate here, because as I said I don't like the precedent. If you could do something about those terms then yeah that would be great because the way I'm reading it there's definitely enough flexibility there to screw people over despite your assurances, which means I myself would not feel comfortable entering without legal advice. That's something which the average indie can't afford, so entrants are either leaving themselves exposed or simply not entering, which is bad for everyone.

That's a legitimate concern, but the text isn't really flexible enough to screw people over; it says it's limited to the hosting of the game on the site and for advertising and promotion of the contest or website.  Like moi said, it is a standard clause to protect the company.  There are hard legal rules that have to be set up, and I think we made them as lenient as possible.

My other point was, expecting young indies to agree to something like this is potentially softening them up to be screwed over in the future by someone who doesn't have such generous intentions.

Well it is indeed important for developers to be aware of what they get themselves into, and that is their responsibility.  I knew this would be a concern so I wrote that rules explanation article. Are there any other ways you think would be an effective way to alleviate these fears?  I will do what it takes to show that we are genuine.

That said I think this contest is lame because inherently all "make it big" contests are lame.
If you can make a game that is good enough to win $100000, you'd be better off exploiting it by yourself.
And if you're not good enough to win, you'd be wasting your time too anyway.

You don't lose anything by entering.  Just enter any of your games and you get a chance to win the big prize or one of the smaller prizes.
The prize money is just to attract people.  The publishing deals happen with whatever game is good; it doesn't have to win the contest, and it doesn't even have to be in the contest.  We're already publishing games from the old site; 2 are already far in production (one of them mine, the other from Cipher Prime) and several more are in the works.  We recently just took interest in a game on our site, just some Flash game that some developer just posted without entering the contest.  We're working with him to potentially get his game onto other platforms.

Contest with prizes are stupid and they're a way to have your hard work exploited. If you want to be in "the industry" don't enter a contest. Only go in a contest if it is just for fun.

I got in the industry because of this.  Your work is never exploited; there is nothing to lose.  You don't have to take the publishing deal if you don't want, you can just take the money and leave.

That said maybe it's actually an easy way to win $100000, who knows. Looking at the previous ocntest entrants and winner would be a good way to judge of the competition, unfortunately, it seems to have been wiped off the internet.

I'm working on putting up a 'past winners' page.  Here are the past winners:
1st Contest:
Winner, $10k - Auditorium by Cipher Prime
http://www.indiepubgames.com/game/Auditorium
Community Favorite, $5k - Storm prototype by Terence Lee (me)
http://www.indiepubgames.com/game/Storm
2nd Contest:
Winner, $10k - Climb to the Top of the Castle! by Tw0 Bros.
http://www.indiepubgames.com/game/Climb_to_the_Top_of_the_Castle!
Community Favorite, $5k - Vector Conflict: The Seige by DigYourOwnGrave
http://www.indiepubgames.com/game/Vector_Conflict:_The_Siege


I know developers are going to be wary of contests like these.  Let me know what I can do to show that we're not here to screw anyone over.  We just want to work with good developers to get some great games published, and we're using this contest to attract them.

[Radix]

Dude, you realise, I'm not really suggesting that anything dodgy is going on here, but if I had concerns I wouldn't be able to take anything you're saying on your word. A past winner, sure. An employee, suss city.