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[Pineapple]

Up until this point, I've always done freeware. For a brief period of time I did write some programs by commission, but that’s beside the point. It is my personal goal to, within a year and a half from now, to make no less than $50 from selling games; this is around when I’d start attending college. It’s a low target, but I imagine it wouldn’t look too shabby on a resume, or a scholarship or college application that I’ve already got a start in the field I’d be focusing on.

Unfortunately for me, I’m only sixteen and I have little knowledge pertaining to the indie business. Do I really need to get a company registered to simply charge people to use a download link, or grab a serial code? Should I put the game on my own non-secure website, or would it be wiser to submit it to a larger company to publish?

For instance, I’ve just finished a game similar to Tetris that I’m quite determined to sell for a bit of green. However, I have several concerns. First, The Tetris Company LLC has a nasty reputation of casting vile threats at smaller developers who create clones, even when they have no legal grounds to do so. If they look at me, I have no planned course of action but to point out that they have no legal grounds to sue me, and promptly run and cower in a corner. Also, it’s not something I’d expect people to buy for more than a dollar or two. It’s not exceedingly unique, and I haven’t established a reputation yet as a developer.

What should I do? Should I just make it another free game, or if I should submit it to a larger company, who should I go for, and if I should sell it myself, what processes would I need to go through to get it going?


Thank you in advance for your answers; I'm very eager to start dabbling in the world of professional indie development.

[dustin]

If your goal is just to earn 50 dollars I would say the easiest route would be just to write a game in flash and host it on kongregate.  I've pretty easily earned more then 50 dollars from there rev sharing just from the stuff I've made learning as3.

Not sure if that's the type of answer you wanted though.

[Eraser]

However, I have several concerns. First, The Tetris Company LLC has a nasty reputation of casting vile threats at smaller developers who create clones, even when they have no legal grounds to do so.

Um, how do they not? If you make a Tetris-like game, you're infringing on their copyrights and they can sue you.

As for selling a game, you don't need to be a part of any government-acknowledged company. The only thing  you have to be careful about is filing the money you make via your game sales to them.

But seriously, unless you're talented in sound/music design as well as being a fairly decent artist, I'm not sure you should expect to be able to charge for your works unless you have someone else creating those.

[Pineapple]

If your goal is just to earn 50 dollars I would say the easiest route would be just to write a game in flash and host it on kongregate.  I've pretty easily earned more then 50 dollars from there rev sharing just from the stuff I've made learning as3.

That's certainly good to know, but I'm hoping to, in addition to making a bit of money, establish myself as a capable developer.

Um, how do they not? If you make a Tetris-like game, you're infringing on their copyrights and they can sue you.

They don't have copyrights. The only thing able to protect the game concept of Tetris would be a US patent, which they do not have and cannot obtain. I've thoroughly researched this subject, so I do know what I'm talking about.

As for selling a game, you don't need to be a part of any government-acknowledged company. The only thing  you have to be careful about is filing the money you make via your game sales to them.

I do have a job, so would I only have to append the money I make from my games onto the same form for money I made from my job? Or is it not that simple?

But seriously, unless you're talented in sound/music design as well as being a fairly decent artist, I'm not sure you should expect to be able to charge for your works unless you have someone else creating those.

I have considerable talent in creating computer graphics. As for audio, I find somebody else whose work I may use whenever possible.

[Eraser]

(Because your profile said you live in the USA)
Yes, it will likely be on the same form (or around there). It says something like "supplementary income" or somesuch.

Do you know of any previous trials in the US when the Tetris company has lost a lawsuit against someone making a tetris-like clone? Because if they do try to sue you, it's going to be nice to have prepared a bit. But I'm no lawyer, and unless your game gets big I doubt a larger corporation will sue.

That's certainly good to know, but I'm hoping to, in addition to making a bit of money, establish myself as a capable developer.

Developing a flash game will still give credit to your name as a developer. It might not make you as distinguished as a guy who's made an epic 400hr long RPG, but it's a start.

I have considerable talent in creating computer graphics. As for audio, I find somebody else whose work I may use whenever possible.

Good to know. You should be set then.

[synapse]

Flash developers are in extremely, extremely high demand right now.  Higher demand than C/C++ 'traditional game' developers.  You should definitely start with Flash.

[Blindsight]

Um, how do they not? If you make a Tetris-like game, you're infringing on their copyrights and they can sue you.

They don't have copyrights. The only thing able to protect the game concept of Tetris would be a US patent, which they do not have and cannot obtain. I've thoroughly researched this subject, so I do know what I'm talking about.

They argue that it is intellectual property rights that are infringed upon. http://harddrop.com/article/article_160/

Just don't make a tetris clone, and you can't use any distinguishable part of the Tetris name. No Tetblock, Block-tris or *tris in fact. There is nothing wrong with doing a puzzle game. Just make it your own and you should be fine.

Worst case scenario, they send you a cease and desist order and you comply by stopping the sales of your game. Unless you have made some ungodly amount of money off of it, that's all they will want. They legally HAVE to try to protect their property, otherwise they lose it.

[KM]

It also depends on HOW much like Tetris it is. Big no-nos are putting Tet, tris or any form of that in name, which has already been explained. But since an idea cannot be copyrighted (yet) the gameplay can besimilar and HAS been similar in lots of games without getting a suit laid on you. Pretty much all you'd have to do is change the blocks shapes of the blocks and that probably would be able to keep you from a suit.

Example, how many times has the Tetris company sued Nintendo over Dr.Mario? In reality both games are about falling objects that when aligned properly cause certian objects to disappear. Change it enough so it's not a total blatent rip off and you'd be fine.

[Pineapple]

The name is "Tetrashade" and according to an official US site, it does not conflict with any registered trademarks. (If I looked hard enough I could find its address again.)

The game concept is no longer protectable. It uses blocks, yes. But a "method of operation" cannot be copyrighted, only patented. The game was made more than 20 years ago, meaning that even if its Russain creator HAD patented it (And Russia explictly does not allow protection of intellectual property like this), it would no longer be effective. The game uses no graphics or sound from Tetris or any other copyrighted sources, so I can't be bugged for copyright violation.

By the way, that "method of operation" thing, there was a court case over something similar, and the defendant did win. If I had the time I'd go find it again, but I am a bit too lazy for that right now.

[Blindsight]

Not sure I'd push it with the name "Tetrashade". [Edit: No, I KNOW I wouldn't use that name] 1 letter off from having the actual game name your are using the gameplay of is too risky IMO when other names could work just fine. What they can protect is the Tetris name.  

The game concept has never been protectable, that's not the issue. So long as your game is different enough, you shouldn't have a problem. From a business standpoint, it had better be different and original, or it's not going to sell anyway.

[Pineapple]

So, what's the general recommendation here? Don't bother selling this game, but instead look into flash development?

[Chris Whitman]

They legally HAVE to try to protect their property, otherwise they lose it.

This is the one of the most common IP myths. In fact, it is not true.

Now, if they never enforced their copyright over an extended period of time, you might argue, if they tried to sue you, that the item was in the public domain, but in practice the ball is in their court and they can selectively enforce their copyright if/when they want.

[Blindsight]

They legally HAVE to try to protect their property, otherwise they lose it.

This is the one of the most common IP myths. In fact, it is not true.

Now, if they never enforced their copyright over an extended period of time, you might argue, if they tried to sue you, that the item was in the public domain.

That is exactly the issue. If they were found to not have attempted to protect their IP they may lose the rights to that IP as it may be considered abandoned. While I didn't run into this specific term while dealing with this issue as part of an LLC I'm involved in, if you check the wiki page, it states that enough usage of a term may allow it to be ruled "Generic" and thus no longer an IP.

While it may be easy to, within a given period (a few years), attempt to protect your property, if you don't and if it is used substantially, it will be deemed public domain. This point was pressed upon us by the judge overseeing our case -- noting that various terms like "substantially" are subjective when it comes to the law and a judgment could go either way. "Always protect your IP" was the judicial advice. [I won't go into the arguments that the law system is a self perpetuating/promoting business. Which I tend to agree with.]

So yes, if you do not attempt to protect your IP, it can, and will (at some point) cease to belong to you.

[synapse]

People here seem to ignore genuine business questions and instead get caught up in ridiculous debates  

Yes, I would go with Flash.  Make a totally new Flash game from scratch every 2-4 weeks.  Your first several games will suck a lot, but you'll learn the ropes.  Then you'll restart and figure out a better way to architect your game each time.  (The worst thing is to get too attached to your first pile of crap and keep trying to refactor it.  No - just start a new project.  Real designers have ADHD anyway, and like 20 awesome game ideas.)

C/C++ games take too long to make.  Flash games can make a shocking amount of money (no, think about 100x more than you're thinking now) and take a lot less time.


Edit: Yeah, scrap the Tetris ripoff.  Don't clone a 26 year old game  

Hint: Clone a 27 year old game:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.U.L.E.

[Blindsight]

So, what's the general recommendation here? Don't bother selling this game, but instead look into flash development?

My opinion is that Flash would be a better route to go. Since you already code learning ActionScript 3 shouldn't be too daunting and you may find that you can churn out smaller games for a few pennies real quick. Those small learning projects lead to larger, more complex or better polished games that will only increase revenue.

Someone who has released Flash games and had some monetary gain from them would have better insight, but it seems to me that with flash you get shorter dev times and similar(?) monetary returns. Certainly the way I'm looking to build a portfolio solo as I look for teams for larger projects.

[Triplefox]

C/C++ games take too long to make.  Flash games can make a shocking amount of money (no, think about 100x more than you're thinking now) and take a lot less time.

Yes, this. If you want to do small projects you can get something up on FGL very quickly and see a one-time buy from sponsors, potentially additional sales through their Game Shop, and some passive revenue via ads and micropayments. If you want to make larger scoped games you can go the route taken by Farbs or these guys and create a "regular $10-20 game, played on the web." If you want to bootstrap traffic and sales via portals you can implement the game as a demo unlockable through a micropayment system, which Terry did for VVVVVV after starting with a downloadable-only release. (some portal users may yell at you, but they aren't going to be your customers anyway.) As a pure business proposition, the only substantial reason to stay out of webgames is if you want higher-end tech.

To take my current business as a strategy planning example: at the moment Deep Sea Descent is sitting on FGL with 0 bids after two weeks. I could probably push harder to make the sponsors look(I logged them and none of them have played even through the entire tutorial - I think they're looking at the trailer instead - at least I hope they are ), but I think it's overscoped for sponsorship, really; I planned from the beginning for micropayment unlocking, so I might actually go for unlimited distribution and just try to maximize sales reach instead.

If you desperately need clone ideas, as synapse suggests, mine games from 1985 or earlier. (the latter 80s saw a massive expansion of average scope and a uniforming of genres, making those games both less distinctive and also past most people's "month-or-two" timeline.) You can release your Tetris game as long as you don't use anything that implies usage of the IP or branding owned by the Tetris Company(typically amounting to titles containing "Tetri-anything" or "anything-tris.") but the effort probably isn't worth it financially or career-wise, considering it's one of the most "generic" games you can make.

[Pineapple]

Alrighty. Thanks much for the advice. I won't be going into flash quite immediately since I have a couple projects I've started, but I'll definitely start looking into it.

[mewse]

That is exactly the issue. If they were found to not have attempted to protect their IP they may lose the rights to that IP as it may be considered abandoned. While I didn't run into this specific term while dealing with this issue as part of an LLC I'm involved in, if you check the wiki page, it states that enough usage of a term may allow it to be ruled "Generic" and thus no longer an IP.

Be aware that "IP" is a very muddy term, and is often applied to very different things (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents, etc), each of which are covered by different laws.

For example, in the USA, lack of enforcement of violations can lead to a trademark being rendered invalid, but will not lead to a patent being revoked.

Also be aware that IP law varies drastically from nation to nation.  Do not trust what you read in Wikipedia or what you've heard second- (or third-)hand from a random Internet denizen:  Even if they do happen to know what they're talking about, what they're saying still may not apply to you. 

When you're uncertain, always always ask an attorney who is licensed to practice in your area.

[KM]

To take my current business as a strategy planning example: at the moment Deep Sea Descent is sitting on FGL with 0 bids after two weeks. I could probably push harder to make the sponsors look(I logged them and none of them have played even through the entire tutorial - I think they're looking at the trailer instead - at least I hope they are ), but I think it's overscoped for sponsorship, really; I planned from the beginning for micropayment unlocking, so I might actually go for unlimited distribution and just try to maximize sales reach instead.
[/quote]

Sorry for derailing the initial topic, but it seems that maybe the tutorial may be too long winded for sponsers? Not that it might be needed by the attention span of gamers can be rather low at times and they might just want to jump right into the game even if they don't know how to play, just to try. I know personally I'm bad for that and usually end up looking like a tool in game or just looking up what I need when I need it. I haven't played the game so I can't comment on the actual tutorial, I'm just infering from what you said. It might be good and they might be crazy. 

[Pineapple]

Oh, by the way, it's very unusual for me to make clones. In fact, I think that Tetris game is the only clone I've ever made. It's just that one day I sat down to start on a new project and thought, "What if Tetris had bombs?" From that I developed Tetrashade, with bombs as one of the smaller mechanics, though definitely the highlight of my day when I get them