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[increpare]

I started trying to prototype a music program at the start of last week.  I got the basic structure of what I wanted to get done done, but it's feeling bad.

The basic idea is that you can drag out groups of equal-duration cells, and you can align them with one another (to get rational rhythm ratios).  



You can then assign sample/volume/pan parameters to those cells and play them back (there's no relationship between vertical positioning and pitch or anything).  It's really micromanagey right now, though - I thought allowing for hierarchical structures like this might make larger-scale designs easier, but it really isn't - you can put complicated/layered stuff down, but the overall relationship between the things won't be at all apparent unless you're super-careful.  It feels like it's missing something very important, but I haven't been able to bloody put my finger on what.

(The build I have is only half-usable right now, I don't think it warrants packaging up/preparing a windows build/sending it around).

Some test mp3s of me playing around in it...

fallapart
scissorfare
test1

(I should probably have saved screenshots of those - would help to explain what's going on).

[muku]

Interesting concept. I do like the first mp3 quite a bit, and though it's a bit hard to picture what's happening, after listening to it a couple of times I think I got the idea, roughly...

[increpare]

Maybe this (pretty dull) example will make things clearer


sample

There's no visual distinction between samples right now...the top group boxed in red are bass drums, the middle is a cow-bell sound, and the bottom are two tom tom sounds.

The first two groups of beats are completely free-floating, the rest are constrained in various ways.

reminds me somehow of something similar i always wanted to do with wireworld, but never did so yet...

Oh yes?

[muku]

Maybe this (pretty dull) example will make things clearer

Uh-huh. That did it. (Just didn't understand what the large red boxes are... just visual cues, or is there some meaning to them? At first I even thought they may be modular components that you could use hierarchically, like in a standard midi sequencer where you have a "part" view and if you open a part you get a note view, just on a more abstract level. But I guess they're not that.)

I wonder if there's any way to incorporate tonality into this. The rational ratio thing you have going seems to be a perfect match for intervals, it's just not obvious at all to me how to integrate them.

Uh, and I really dig the sound of layered threes-over-fours, i.e. when sixteenths and triplets clash.

[increpare]

I wonder if there's any way to incorporate tonality into this. The rational ratio thing you have going seems to be a perfect match for intervals, it's just not obvious at all to me how to integrate them.

Mmm - that had crossed my mind.  A vertical axis might help here, but that's used already for hierarchical organisation.  Could go 3d, I guess, and flip between pitch and tempo organisation - that could be fun (but likely confusing).

(the red boxes I drew on afterwards)

but there's no "functionl relationship" between these events in the vertical direction, it seems?

Right, hierarchical organisation.

I'm going to go away and have a think about it.

Tonality stuff wouldn't necessarily help me too much...I think I'm going to have to try sketch out some way of organising things on a larger scale - possibly allowing for modular pieces or stuff to be replicated/transformed *might* work.  Not sure how, though.

Not really a tool though, because it could get quite "chaotic" I guess...

What if you were to use them to generate a one-bit synth?  

(I guess to a large extent how chaotic it would be would depend on the construction tools you give people to use)

[JMickle]

I wonder if there's any way to incorporate tonality into this. The rational ratio thing you have going seems to be a perfect match for intervals, it's just not obvious at all to me how to integrate them.

Mmm - that had crossed my mind.  A vertical axis might help here, but that's used already for hierarchical organisation.  Could go 3d, I guess, and flip between pitch and tempo organisation - that could be fun (but likely confusing).

I would love this.

I am in the planning stages of a music program of my own, and was thinking of a similar setup to yours, but I was still only thinking about monophony, i hadn't thought about how i would handle multiple instruments yet.

I would be very interested in trying this out once something useable has been made.

[JMickle]

I wonder if there's any way to incorporate tonality into this. The rational ratio thing you have going seems to be a perfect match for intervals, it's just not obvious at all to me how to integrate them.

Mmm - that had crossed my mind.  A vertical axis might help here, but that's used already for hierarchical organisation.  Could go 3d, I guess, and flip between pitch and tempo organisation - that could be fun (but likely confusing).

I would love this.

I am in the planning stages of a music program of my own, and was thinking of a similar setup to yours, but I was still only thinking about monophony, i hadn't thought about how i would handle multiple instruments yet.

I would be very interested in trying this out once something useable has been made.

[Brother Android]

Uh, and I really dig the sound of layered threes-over-fours, i.e. when sixteenths and triplets clash.

Them's polyrhythms, mate! Check out some African music, you'd probably like it.

Anyway, this program actually seems intriguing to me. The interface looks more intuitive than a lot of similar programs in my opinion, but then, my idea of intuitive isn't necessarily the same as everyone else's. I like how you're visually representing the rhythms, though. As for incorporating tonality... that seems like a difficult thing to add with this interface, but even without that I think it still has the potential to be a useful tool, so long as it exports in formats useful in other programs.

The scissors sample was great, by the way.

[muku]

Uh, and I really dig the sound of layered threes-over-fours, i.e. when sixteenths and triplets clash.

Them's polyrhythms, mate! Check out some African music, you'd probably like it.

Heh, yeah, I know about them and listen to quite a lot of music featuring the stuff heavily. (Meshuggah rocks.) Was just reminded by this particular instance of my deep appreciation

[Kunal]

I think I'm going to have to try sketch out some way of organising things on a larger scale - possibly allowing for modular pieces or stuff to be replicated/transformed *might* work.  Not sure how, though.

Have you looked at Renoise ? There's a pattern editor , which lets you compose stuff at an atomic level , note-by-note. And then they've got a pattern mixer that lets you work at a more macroscopic level, turning off various blocks and such.

[increpare]

I think I'm going to have to try sketch out some way of organising things on a larger scale - possibly allowing for modular pieces or stuff to be replicated/transformed *might* work.  Not sure how, though.

Have you looked at Renoise ? There's a pattern editor , which lets you compose stuff at an atomic level , note-by-note. And then they've got a pattern mixer that lets you work at a more macroscopic level, turning off various blocks and such.

Yeah, acutally, I tried it a while ago - I hadn't thought about it recently.  Mmmm worth thinking about.

[agj]

Disregarding the spammer above...

What happened to this, Stephen?

[increpare]

It's in hibernation.  It didn't reach a state where it was nicely usable, and I wasn't sure what direction to take it.  Hmm.