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[baconman]

Admittedly, I'm only a musical-gamer (think DDR/GH/RB/etc.), and not an "actual musician," so I'd really appreciate any feedback on the topic you could offer.

This untitled-as-of-yet project I'm working on has a musical-gameplay element within it, as well as plans for "dynamic music creation system," part of which (usually 4th phrases of a verse and/or Solos) will utilize key "moves," or little spurts of notes that are generally just fun to pull off, to give them some flavor. Post #7 generalizes it, and the most recent post goes into a little more detail about the processing of it (and some of the moves I've noticed and had fun playing with).

So when you guys cut loose, what kind of note-structures do you find most fun to play with?

[Aquin]

Well, I don't use it much, but it's pretty easy to cut loose with a minor 11th chord and a major 11.

Like...e minor and a major.  For the not-a-musician, these are the notes used (from any octave)

e g  b a f#  AND
a c# e g

Uh, there's more but I can't really see it through my headache.  You could also try a much easier chord that's simple to play around with. 

The 1-4-5 setup with a dominant 7 minor can work for bass.

c e g a#
f a c d#
g b d f

And inside that you can play:  c d d# e g a (and occasionally a#)

But this is all jazz.  Metal and rock tend to use an open-c chord.  So anything based around that is gonna work.  Something simpler can still follow the 1-4-5 chords.

If you want an ARABIAN improv, these are the notes to use:

c c# e g g# a#

That should do ya.  Need more?  I'll help you out.

[JMickle]

woah aquin calm down with your 11th! I stick to a good old minor 7th only adding 9ths to the IV chord usually.

minor pentatonic scale is easiest to play notes and get them right on, but will never make anything incredible interesting.

[Aquin]

There's nothing wrong with 11ths!  But yeah, probably should just stick to the minor 7ths. 

The arabic scale (no idea what the technical term is, I just call it that) can produce some really interesting stuff if you're into it. 

[JMickle]

AQUIN CAN YOU RECOMMEND ANYTHING I SHOULD GET INTO IN TERMS OF JAZZ TO WIDEN MY KNOWLEDGE? i DONT REALLY KNOW A HUGE AMOUNT ABOUT THE GENRE BUT REALLY REALLY WANT TO GET INTO IT, MAINLY BECAUSE OF ALL THE INTERESTING IMPROVISATION TECHNIQUES AND SO ON.

edit: lol how did i not notice the caps on this 

[increpare]

The arabic scale (no idea what the technical term is, I just call it that) can produce some really interesting stuff if you're into it. 

There are lots of scales that one might refer to as arabic : )

[KM]

I'm surprised no one has even mentioned the Pentonic Minor or Blues scale?

[Aquin]

JMickle, I only recommended the Jazz scale for two reasons:

1) I don't see it much in video games.
2) It's easy to improvise even a little something, despite skill.

Personally, I don't like Jazz all that much.  It's kinda like GameMaker; low entry level means a lot of imitators lacking in skill.  But I guess it's like any genre of music.  A couple of winners and a whole lot of losers.

But I think the general gist here is that improvising means taking a scale and tinkering with it.  There isn't much point in us listing all the possibilities; that's what wikipedia is for.  baconman, if you're still reading this, I suggest you use this thread thus far as a base and go a hunting.

[JMickle]

I'm surprised no one has even mentioned the Pentonic Minor or Blues scale?

minor pentatonic scale is easiest to play notes and get them right on, but will never make anything incredible interesting.

@aquin - fair enough. I'll have a mess around with that scale, see what its like.

[hyperduck]

Minor Blues scale for the win. Especially over Gminor, my favourite place.. well that's a lie, was my first place i learnt it when i was a idd biddy thing. Or something.

The term, jazz scale.. is.. well it doesn't exist, those aren't scales but small melodic figures. Understandably it is used in jazz, but a 1-4-5 progression is a blues progression. 2-5-1, or 2-5-6-1, are most common in typical jazz standard chord progressions.

Grab yourself a Real Book if you don't have one, it's good for Jazz Standards and can help you get used to jazz chord progressions as well.

I don't really have anything I can recommend at the moment, I ain't played my piano in a few months since i've been studying for my drum exams (done now woot!) but i disagree with your POV on jazz. I'm an avid jazz listener and jazz is the figure head at the top of a big tree of jazz genres. There is something in jazz for everybody with a bit of taste and interest in music. Since most of the good music you listen to today has stemmed from Jazz theory.

[baconman]

Is this for guitar, keyboard, either one, or what exactly?
__________

Oh, don't stop this thread. See, while most of the structure will probably adhere to "the KISS formula," I certainly want to provide a good variety of styles and interesting depth about it as well. Especially when it comes to "signature sound" variables (one of the defining characteristics of the character-builder), little tricks that give a set of songs a particular flavor that can be identified with a character. A crude-but-effective example is one I call "the Boston Hammer," a quick spurt of 4 1/12-notes found in practically every one of their (Boston, the band) songs. There's more detail about that on the second page of the linked post above. "Dynamically created" doesn't mean "randomly created," and it's pretty important that songs have some catchiness about it and be fun, exciting, and enriching to play, since there's musical gameplay involved.

Going back over some basic music theory, while many of the notes can be arrangements of 8s, I do believe the beatmapping variables will have to default to 16ths, but with style modifiers factored in. (Blues is a nice, simple example, since it mostly involves converting the timing accordingly, with the occasional "extra riff/beat" inserted. Waltz is just as simple as eliminating the 4th beat; and overall musical phrase structure may adjust with poetic rules about it, too (like some songs will be more limerick-structured, for instance). A more rave-like sound can be generated with some basic modification, too (like taking "1.2.3.4." and making it "1.23.34." simply by mod-arranging the "3")

Learning interesting scales like the ones mentioned above is key, too - because even though the software-structure involved is crude and simple (generally using identifiers like 0-7), there's no reason why they can't be mapped to different chord structures more approriate to the mood or setting. Doing that can take these basic, crude codestrings and give this project considerable potential for growth and variety.

Admittedly, some of it's still a little bit above my head (not a lot though, since I took basic keyboarding and music theory - and I started playing BEMANI titles back in 2000), but I'm sure it's within my grasp.

Originally, I mostly posted in regard to said "tricks" that are fun to use, but this is far more informative so far - and a neat discussion on different styles and such may add some inspiration and depth, and be good discussion banter!

  Thank you, and I look forward to hearing from you guys a bit more on the subject!

[KM]

I honestly thought when I first saw this post that the title suggested Musician moves like throwing a guitar around your neck, or doing windmills.  (Also to note, my favorite of these is to play the guitar behind my head while dancing. )

[J.W. Hendricks]

Well, I don't normally play around with anythig to complicated. I find that the common audience can't really appreciate "musical genius". They just want something that ultimately sounds cool. I don't know, but for some reason I most always stay away from B, F#, and occaisionally E. I really don't know why.

[Aquin]

Yeah, I don't know any technical terms or theory.  I can play music, read music, but I honestly don't really know all that much about it.  I call it the jazz scale, cuz that's what it sounds like to me. >.>

If you want something else, here's what I've noticed from Koji Kondo's Legend of Zelda:

A Minor diminished (c major really.)
D Major. 

This covers most of OoT. 

[feeblethemighty]

Well, I don't normally play around with anythig to complicated. I find that the common audience can't really appreciate "musical genius". They just want something that ultimately sounds cool.

I agree.  Playing by ear is the only way to go.  At least for me.  I can read notes if i squint at them, and tell you which note i'm playing on a piano by counting up or down from C.  But, yeah, mostly i just play what sounds good.  Perhaps this is a symptom of my brief stint playing piano with the Suzuki method when i was a kid.

When i'm sitting down playing with my guitalele, i usually start playing Em to Am with a C break.  Don't know why.  Simple but really fun to play.