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[Curseman]

Anyone heard of this?  It's an attempt at making a Dwarf Fortress-like without the problems DF has.

There's nothing playable yet, but the

looks pretty nice.

[fraxcell]

Looks cool. I think the Dwarf Fortress interface would improve a lot if you could just use the mouse with all of the menus.

[Seth]

Yep, looks like DF with a good interface.  Personally I'm more interested in how this will differ from DF in a more fundamental way, though.   Perhaps that it's designed for building settlements rather than digging will be enough, but I'd like to see some other innovations or changes, too.

[Tycho Brahe]

I'm very interested in the mouse interface, it looks great!

[s0]

So it's Dorf Fortress Lite basically? This is a pretty neat idea and not just because of the interface. I mean, the original DF is one of my all-time favorite games but it's something I have to be really "in the mood" for. If this game gets to a playable/enjoyable state some time, it could be the perfect thing for scratching that DF itch when I don't feel like delving into all of the complexity.

[Dacke]

I read the thread about it over at the DF forums.

There are many positive reactions about the UI design. Something like it would indeed be a great addition to DF.

But what strikes me most is how many jerks there are over there.
So much negativity and comments like:
"it's faster to type than to use a mouse, derpa derpa derp"
and
"NO CLONES!!!11!1!1"

[PleasingFungus]

It really is a very direct clone. Aside from changing you to playing 'goblins', it seems like the only difference is the UI... he even has arbitrarily-designated 'stockpiles', using the same symbols as with the DF ones! (That kind of 'stockpile' seems very distinctively DF.)

I'm not entirely sure what I feel about the game. It seems like a shame to spend your time cloning someone else's work pixel-for-pixel, rather than striking out to make your own mark...

Hm. I suppose I'm rambling. Best of luck to him?

EDIT: Okay, wow, I'm skimming through the thread on the DF forums now, and (1) he is changing things (no z-levels!), so that's good, and (2)...

..."you're making me feel bad about being a DF fan", one of the posters says about the DF-forums thread, and I have to agree with him.

Wow.

[Dacke]

It will be different. But even if the aim was to make the exact same game, it would still be a good thing. Just the fact that he starts with UI and only adds a few things at a time (but tries to get them polished and functional) will make for a completely different experience.

Not better. Not worse. Different and interesting.

[s0]

It really is a very direct clone. Aside from changing you to playing 'goblins', it seems like the only difference is the UI... he even has arbitrarily-designated 'stockpiles', using the same symbols as with the DF ones! (That kind of 'stockpile' seems very distinctively DF.)

I'm not entirely sure what I feel about the game. It seems like a shame to spend your time cloning someone else's work pixel-for-pixel, rather than striking out to make your own mark...

I don't think there's anything "morally" wrong with it being a clone. I mean the developer is pretty upfront about and I don't believe he's making any profit from it either.

As for "shame to spend your time making a clone": I see where you're coming from but I don't really feel entitled to judge the way other people spend their time/creative energy. I mean I wouldn't make an exact clone of another game either because I don't consider it "creatively fulfilling" or whatever. But if it's a DF clone that guy wants to make, let him.

[Melly]

Maybe this will push Toady to make some UI improvements to DF sooner than planned.

[Seth]

It seems like the guy strongly disagrees with the way Tarn is developing DF so I don't think it'll end up being a clone.  I mean, the guy said he thinks its important to develop a good UI first and then expand on the game, which is one point where he is the complete opposite of Tarn.  That UI video really does make it look like a simple DF clone, though, since it the setting isn't exactly imaginative and he does use the same symbols and terms ("Carpenter's Workshop")--but it's only been in development for a month, so who knows.

[muku]

Keep in mind though that Toady has been slaving away at DF for years and years, so it's not like someone will go and make an exact replica of all the deep simulation features in a few weeks or months. In that sense I think talking about a "direct clone" misses the mark; few people have the resources and the patience to do that, and those who do would probably rather do their own thing. So if this goes anywhere at all, I'd guess that it will be a simpler game.


The whole premise is built on sand though.

Goblins just aren't as hardcore as dwarves are.

 

[Curseman]

But what strikes me most is how many jerks there are over there.

I really think a big part of Toady's problem is that his forums are so full of sycophants who don't know how to tell him when he's making a mistake, and are willing to donate exorbitant amounts of money regardless of whether Toady's changes are actually improving the game or not.  Any criticism gets shouted down so quickly.

Maybe this will push Toady to make some UI improvements to DF sooner than planned.

Yeah, regardless of whether GC turns out well or not, healthy competition is exactly what DF needs.

Edit:

Official site is up at http://www.goblincamp.com/.  No game yet, but he does have some clarification on what his goals are with it and how it'll play.

[s0]

Yeah, regardless of whether GC turns out well or not, healthy competition is exactly what DF needs.

If it doesn't turn out well (or "turn out" at all), it's not competition. 

Anyway,

I was content with DF for a long time, but then I got to thinking of all the things I’d like to see done with the genre (genre being roguelike citybuilder, I suppose. Who cares what its called). So I had 3 choices:

    * Send Toady my suggestions and hope he does things the way I’d like
    * Hope someone else makes a game just the way I’d like
    * Do it myself

I like this guy's attitude. I wish more of DF's "critics" were like that.

[Cypress]

I'm really looking forward to this. the complicated interface never really let me get into DF.

[Curseman]

If it doesn't turn out well (or "turn out" at all), it's not competition. 

Maybe it would've been better to say if it doesn't turn out to be a game I personally would like.  Yeah it does no good if no one plays it at all, but I have a hard time believing that he won't be able to draw in some DF players based on the interface alone.

[Zaratustra]

Why does it still use ASCII?

[Curseman]

That's a good question.

I imagine that a lot of DF fans prefer ASCII over tiles.  Hopefully it allows for both ascii and tile options.

[Dustin Smith]

If you read his official page he's been drawing out ASCII cities for years; I guess it's just natural with him. I agree though, all the context-sensitive controls would be lost on those people who snub ASCII (albeit I'm not in that camp).

I couldn't get into DF because of the controls and the sheer complexity of the ruleset; hopefully this can be playable. 

[Seth]

I think it's odd how this game seems to have a fan base already.  I guess I underestimated how much the UI in Dwarf Fortress turned people off.