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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsAdventure Game!
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Nessiah
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« on: June 24, 2010, 04:06:27 AM »

Well...here goes nothing. Epileptic
I've been working on a project for a while now but I didn't want to reveal too much info once I have a lot done but. I wanted to see how many people play Adventure Games / Visual Novels in the indie scene.

It's my first time to make an Adventure Game because I wanted to try it out and possibly hone puzzle making skills, but a lot of people I know don't even play them so it's hard for me to get decent feedback and what points I should avoid, right now I haven't done much but I think I did something different for the gameplay ;w;

Gah I'm really embarassed but I should try it out anyway! I'm trying to think the pros and cons of the system I thought of but but, please be gentle with me ;a;

Argh no hide tags, I have no choice ;_;

How To Play:
Note: This isn't a real scene in game but it's a mini-map to explain how the gameplay works.

You wake up trapped in a basement. Trapped



Not knowing where the exit is, you decided to let your heart tell you where the exit is by pressing 1.




Enough complaining and find a way out already. Anyway you noticed a block of wood and decided to investigate it. And used the Clover to understand it.




A Memory is something that you get when you investigate items. Some items are summon-able later on, it'll be explained a bit later. You can only gain a memory when you have clover equipped.





The Spade symbolizes death and rebirth. If something is destined to live, it can fast forward its lifespan or bring death to a living thing. This symbol only works on living things.

If all else fails, it's time to summon a Memory by using Diamond. It's the symbol that allows you to create things out of nothing.




And now you can go out!

*watches fail*
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 07:09:10 AM by Nessiah » Logged

increpare
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2010, 04:23:57 AM »

Memory wasn't at all necessary to use in that scenario, was it?
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Nessiah
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2010, 04:37:32 AM »

It is because you'll never get out :D
the block of wood was actually a part of a stair ;w;
*I'll make it more clear once the menu is done and show memory info*
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UnemployedVillain
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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2010, 05:20:05 AM »

The art style reminds me of Golden Sun
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Swift_Illusion
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2010, 06:43:36 AM »

Firstly, the gameplay shown in your example, brilliant :D.
Certainly innovative and unique from anything I can remember.

Next, I'll give some of my personal concerns/solutions/ideas towards this system :3.

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This is certainly an interesting system.
As far as I know with this, you discover each card in there respective areas within the
games 4 divisions, and use them to get through the levels or uncover more information
about the path you choose to take.
This gives the player a reason to discover and walk through each of the areas, and is
a good way to encourage them, because they will always be rewarded by there interest
by the accomplishment of the puzzle. Without that reward a system like this might be
tedious, so it's important for the player to understand there is a reason for there
hard work.
"Increpare" said memory wasn't necessary, however missing the point that you used it
because you wanted to explain each card. But there is a point to the concern presented
here, if a player feels something is unnecessary, it will detract from there feeling of
accomplishment and replace it with a tedious and disheartened feeling.

Concern - The use of cards, need a 'GOOD' reason
Every area that requires the use of these cards to explore, 'Needs' to have a good reason.
If you can't grow a plant, the plant should look dead, or be dried up.
A player shouldn't have to feel like they are doing something completely unnecessary.
Possible Solution/Comment
Always ask yourself 'is this necessary'. Try to make a room requiring the cards obvious
in it's requirement. A room that requires you to remember a ladder to climb up the wall,
shouldn't have plants near it that look like they can be grown. This means that the player
won't have to run around in circles trying to workout which solution is the correct one,
but also leaves them absent enough from a direct clue that they can be proud of them-self
for working out the problem.

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The next thing that comes to mind, is how consistent the problem solving is.
For example, the use of the clover in the manual you presented, is remembering a ladder
that once existed in the room. What were to happen then if you were in another room and
there was a broken ladder on the floor and a wall that required you to get over in front
of you. The player would instantly think that they need to use the ladder again.

Concern - puzzle consistency
Every time you create a puzzle for a player, if they see a similar setup in another room,
no matter what the actual solution is, they will try the previous one, and will become
frustrated if that isn't the solution. If a broken ladder is a memory that is required
for a puzzle to climb the wall, it can not exist in another 'climb the wall' puzzle that
has a different solution.
A problem that arises within this, is if you require a broken ladder in a similar room,
but the actual outcome your trying to achieve is different.
Possible Solution/Comment
You need to keep tabs on your puzzles and level layouts so that they don't directly
collide with other areas of the game. However there is no problem with using the same
problem 'AND' solution for a puzzle in another area, just make sure not to over-use them,
2 or 3 times and the player still feels the original accomplishment and can be proud that
they remembered the original solution.
If you grew a certain plant in an area that lead to a solution, make sure that the same
plant can only be found in areas where it can grow without concern.
You don't want to make a puzzle with items that can be changed through them-self like the
growing plant, that could confuse the objective of the level you are in.

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The next area of this gameplay that I'd like to mention is the use of multiple cards.
You need to discover each of these cards in there respective divisions of the game,
but you don't want to have to discover each of them straight away.
If you want to travel the path of the spade, you don't want to reach the 3rd room and
discover a puzzle that requires clover. You need to allow the player room to breath
within the gameplay, before pushing them to follow the other paths to discover the
other cards. You also don't want to become fully independent in each area on solving
a puzzle with cards. Like I mentioned before about needing a 'good' reason for something,
if your in a fancy looking room and you see a broken ladder on the ground, and you need
to travel back so that you can venture on another path to find the card required,
when an area as clean as that room would be expected to have a very fancy and new ladder,
that won't be a happy player.
You want to give people puzzles, but you don't want to give so many that they start to
become tedious and lengthy, there needs to be a well thought out pace to the game and
it's progress.

Concern - pacing and repetitiveness
The most important thing you want to avoid with the gameplay shown here, is turn
it into a repetitive process that requires you to journey back and forth.
Also, you want to make the pacing of each puzzle and card requirement flexible enough
to allow players to begin to enjoy the game, but without loosing the opportunity you
have to introduce new concepts to the puzzles. The great thing with your idea is the
fact there are 4 different cards, the problem is that a player might decide by themselves
that they want to discover each card straight away. You mentioned the cards becoming
stronger, however the important thing is to not make that point a gimick, the player
needs to have a reason to make there card stronger.
Possible Solution/Comment
I'm still unsure of the exact 'make up' of the world, and it's contents, but a possible solution for the problem of traveling is a way for him to instead of having a 'physical' point of intersection with each of the dividing card areas, have a 'mental' intersection.
So he can return into a mental state and change the path he is on. This way you can allow
him to move back and forth between each path, without loosing the progress of your own level or the others. So maybe you travel through 6 levels in spades, then find out you
need a heart card. You can change your path to the heart card, and discover it's use in
the 3rd level, then return back to the 6th level in spades path to complete the puzzle.
It makes learning each path a less tedious task, and doesn't punish you for wanting
to do so.
The cards becoming more powerful is a good way to include a developing pace of gameplay
even if the player wants to discover each card straight away.
It also allows you to develop more difficult puzzles. With that clover having access
to remember the past of objects, you could reach puzzles that might require remembering
the original place of multiple objects that have been moved.
The important thing is to make each 'stage' of the card obvious and different enough that
the player understands that they need the card to become stronger, instead of just sitting
there wandering why it won't work they way they want. For example, maybe the spade can
only originally fast-forward the life-span of a living thing, but needs to become more
powerful if you want the option of bringing death to a living thing. An obvious enough
difference that the player understands that they need to strengthen there card.

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Now I'd like to address the difficulty of playing this game.
There are players who enjoy adventures and puzzle games and will run about for hours until
they find the right solution, then jump up and down for joy. However there are also those
that enjoy adventures and puzzles, but get frustrated if they are left without any obvious
direction.
Concern - difficulty
With a game like this that has so many possible solutions with each cards ability,
and the fact that sometimes you will need multiple cards to solve a puzzle, it brings
about the question, 'how much direction should there be to a solution'.
Very generally, there are 2 markets to be targeted, players that want to have all the
feelings of hard work and accomplishment after hours of burning there brain out for a
solution, and those that just enjoy getting past each solution.
Possible Solution/Comment
I think that an 'easy/normal' difficulty option would benefit the design of this game.
However there doesn't need to be a large difference. I like how he used his heart in
the images shown to discover a hint to the 'outcome', and I think that trying to workout
the objects in that room by yourself is great, and would perfectly suit the normal
difficulty setting, giving players more than enough solo effort to be very happy
with themselves for finding the solution.
I think for the 'easy' difficulty, and players who want to play this game without the
frustration, a good and quick change would be to, when he uses his 'heart', to discover
the outcome, that also creates a glow resembling the color of the card required,
around the object that needs to be used. It still leaves the player to workout how that
object should be used to achieve the solution they want. And when the game becomes harder
if the stronger cards have slight differences in there usage, the player still needs to
discover which of those abilties is the exact one to use. With that, it doesn't leave the
difficulty level in a stale state and you can still feel like you have accomplished
something after finding the solution to the puzzle at hand.



Anyways, haha, hope this is what you wanted, and I hope my solutions, or ideas you come
up with through reading them, help you improve this already very very intriguing project
:D
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Nessiah
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« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2010, 02:45:48 AM »

That's one looooooonnngg feedback! Thank you very much! I'll be sure to read it and see what I can do to deliver those issues :D
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Nessiah
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2010, 03:37:41 AM »

Hm not sure if anyone would mind but Smiley




Still working on war side: <A<;
-snip-
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 07:59:04 AM by Nessiah » Logged

Miko Galvez
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2010, 04:43:15 AM »

I hope you change the font someday.
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Nessiah
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2010, 05:18:14 AM »

Totally Smiley
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MaloEspada
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2010, 09:53:15 AM »

Whoa, you made a devlog and I missed it?
Totally gonna check this later and edit this post with feedback.

Looking great, btw.
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