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[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

That looks more like a regular portal than a steam-like thing to me, at least on first glance.

[robotButler]

Yeah it's just for sales and distribution, there's no Steam-like component to do Friends, anti-cheat, "pre-loading", etc.  It just has a little downloader app.

But do we really need all the Steam features?  What we need most is just a digital-distribution game store with

• A big indie-friendly audience
• An editorial policy that keeps it from becoming "daily sequel craporama portal X"
• An indie focus and developer-friendly contracts

I mean, right?  The Penny Arcade audience is pretty perfect for indie games.  Remember the epic Dwarf Fortress [Let's Play] thread on their forums?

I think they'll have a lot more luck getting customers with a web store than with a Steam/Gametap-like "install me and run me in your systray all the time and launch all your games from me" thing anyway.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

But what you describe already exists, there's Manifesto Games.

And okay, they're not the greatest place because they do have some low-quality games as well, but at least they're a portal that specifically eschews boring casual game clones.

[team_q]

But what you describe already exists, there's Manifesto Games.

And okay, they're not the greatest place because they do have some low-quality games as well, but at least they're a portal that specifically eschews boring casual game clones.

I like the concept of manifesto, I've met the dude who runs it, but It seems a bit rusty and not really a reliable source of killer or interesting games, which is too bad.

[Farbs]

But what you describe already exists, there's Manifesto Games.

And okay, they're not the greatest place because they do have some low-quality games as well, but at least they're a portal that specifically eschews boring casual game clones.

They also don't have 3 million regular readers. I think that's the main thing PA are bringing to this venture.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I met him once too actually (did you see his apartment? his walls have books everywhere!).

I'd have to disagree about not being a good source for games, though. As an example, his group blog http://playthisthing.com is almost as useful to me as http://tigsource.com is when it comes to finding out about great games.

I do think Manifesto could do with more exclusive content, but I don't think it's that bad. It has a lot of the games I like, anyway.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

That's a good point about traffic though.

[Farbs]

That's a good point about traffic though.

The internet really fascinates me in that way. There can be massive differences between the number of people using two relatively similar sites. Penny Arcade and Play This Thing are obviously quite different, but still the difference is pretty severe:
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/playthisthing.com?site0=playthisthing.com&site1=penny-arcade.com&y=r&z=3&h=300&w=610&u%5B%5D=playthisthing.com&u%5B%5D=penny-arcade.com&x=2008-04-03T03%3A34%3A29.000Z&check=www.alexa.com&signature=dwVXuvs4m%2FC5Strdr0iXcB9wYbo%3D&range=6m&size=Medium

[Zaphos]

I think having some flagship content is also important -- Man!festo has generally not given much reason to visit it specifically, whereas if P-A is going to push their own episodic content on greenhouse, they're giving their significant audience a reason to visit greenhouse with some regularity.

Play This Thing is nice, but it seems like it could exist without Man!festo, and there's not much reason to visit the main Man!festo site (rambling ad copy about often-questionable games?), so Man!festo itself doesn't seem to serve much of a purpose to me.

[Corpus]

Sounds pretty cool, but there may well still be room for the sort of digital distribution system we've been talking about. Greenhouse is still a fairly closed platform. There's also a place for a more democratised indie game distro model, where everyone can submit things and have them voted upon, etc.

[Zaphos]

Sounds pretty cool, but there may well still be room for the sort of digital distribution system we've been talking about. Greenhouse is still a fairly closed platform. There's also a place for a more democratised indie game distro model, where everyone can submit things and have them voted upon, etc.

What about tigdb?  It seems like distribution (on PC) can be handled however the developer chooses, and the important offering of an open site/portal/thing is just letting you know what's out there, what's new, what you're likely to like, etc.  That way the content is also not randomly limited to the developers who arrange to be on the site; it's much more all-encompassing.

I think Derek also hinted at some point that he was interested in making the site support alternative business models for indies, or something like that, so perhaps it will become even more like what you're thinking about as it is developed?

[Eclipse]

TigDB is only a database, you can't buy using that, you need to have a digital delivery thing by yourself or a portal\publisher behind you.
And last but not least, TIGSource also if a famous site for indie developers is totally unknow at the average player, mostly because it have a different "target" (indie developers, very few indie gamers and surely not average gamers)

Anyway that Greenhouse stuff is exciting, we'll see how it will turn

[Zaphos]

TigDB is only a database, you can't buy using that, you need to have a digital delivery thing by yourself or a portal\publisher behind you.

Yep; I was just thinking that maybe figuring out a digital delivery thing by yourself isn't really that hard, and the main value of something like Man!festo or Greenhouse is just (for the users) the recommendation/editorial aspect, and (for the developers) the eyeballs.
And also that tigdb might evolve in to more than a database, eventually.

And last but not least, TIGSource also if a famous site for indie developers is totally unknow at the average player, mostly because it have a different "target" (indie developers, very few indie gamers and surely not average gamers)

Also true, but I suspect that any democratized indie game distro model would have this problem, so I think perhaps tigdb might be the best you'll get.
I wasn't saying it's a replacement / competitor to something like greenhouse, just that it might be pretty close to the additional distro model Corpus mentioned (or at least the important parts of it).

Anyway that Greenhouse stuff is exciting, we'll see how it will turn

Agreed!

[zradick]

Greenhouse sounds pretty cool, but I admit I am a bit biased as a regular reader of Penny Arcade.  Speaking of which, did anyone else submit anything to the PAX-10 competition?  I can only imagine that the winners are going so see some pretty serious traffic spikes to their sites...

Cheers,
--Zack