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[MisterSmith]

Hello everyone.

As of late, I've been somewhat loosing my interest in the traditional gaming scene. I have a wide range of games that I want at some point; many are available now, some are still upcoming, some are for my DS, while others are for my 360 and Wii, others are for download services like Xbox Live (DLC and XBLA games) and the Wii Shop Channel (VC and WiiWare). In short, I haven't actually lost interest in the games coming out, but I feel more distant than how I used to be.

I really started to notice this distance probably around the end of last summer. I remember it was about the time when there was going to be a period of solid releases for the Xbox 360 coming up (I remember offhand there were games like Eternal Sonata, Stranglehold, Bioshock, Skate and others I was interested in). And it wasn't even November (which is always usually the biggest month in a typical year). And it was only for a certain aspect of one console. Already in the month of September and I felt behind. It essentially got worse in the months to follow. (And is still bad, more or less) I almost considered in a blessing when Brawl was delayed. (Almost. The first time. The second time sucked. A lot.)

Anyway, the problem (I think) with me is that I'm fairly open to anything. Outside of sports games and the 12,000 FPS that seem to be getting released as of late, I'm open to mostly anything, as long as it's got some compelling element to it. Video games have been a favorite medium of mine for most of my life, so it's one I've always been interested in supporting.

But in recent years I've been noticing a trend in my gaming habits. It's actually a habit that I've had for years, but only recently has been bothering me: I don't finish games. Like almost ever. I actually had a slightly minor finishing streak of No More Heroes and Assassin's Creed during January and February, but beyond that I can't think of the last retail game I've finished within the few months prior to that.

In fact, I spend more time thinking about the games I haven't finished from varying points; I remember playing Gears of War through the first Act (I think that's what they called them) played multi-player for a couple of matches with some friends and basically called it a day within about two weeks. I thought the game was excellent in many regards (graphics, audio, gameplay were all top notch and probably amongst the top in its genre) but I never felt inclined to pick it up again. A much more distant example I always seem to think back to is 2004’s Tales of Symphonia, Namco’s Gamecube RPG. Again, it was an excellent game...but for some reason I’m always able to recall only putting in about 7 or so hours in the game. Honestly, I think that’s all I put into it. I may have put more in, but I’m doubt I have interest in putting the game in just to see how few of hours I put into it. But there it is; a beautiful expansive RPG worth to many a solid 60 hours of gameplay from start to finish...and I did 7 measly hours of it.

I think another problem I have is that I think I have some kind of subconscious willingness to throw my money at someone or something because of a concept or an ideal of some sort, or other general willingness to support the gaming industry. In the case of Tales of Symphonia, I was interested in supporting the idea of getting RPG support for the Gamecube, which it was severely lacking in compared to the competition. (On a related note; I also bought the original Baten Kaitos, and it also suffered a somewhat similar fate to what I did with ToS. I loved it, but spent little time with it. I played it much more in comparison, but not by much.) I’m also willing to throw my money at smaller-type companies in order to support more companies in the industry. Well, that’s usually more of an ‘in-theory’ type ordeal; I always kept telling myself to buy games from Sting (Riviera: The Promised Land and Yggdra Union), but that never happened. I also was ‘convinced’ in buying Alien Hominid for the Gamecube (2004), but I never did until the Xbox Live Arcade version (2007) came out (although in hindsight I’m really glad I did go with that version instead).

Anyway, my obsession in supporting the industry got to a point in which I started making a list long enough to keep track in an office document. What started during one E3 (I think it was E3 ’04 or perhaps ’05?) as a MS Word document as a simple alphabetical list of the games I wanted evolved into a monstrous MS Excel spreadsheet including data such as systems, formats, availability and prices (including taxes). I can tell you that the amount of content (including Xbox 360, Wii, DS, XBLA, Virtual Console, Wii Ware, and XBL Marketplace content) prices in the thousands. This was all after making some cuts. And I have more than enough to finance it all which bothers me, frankly.

But that brings me back to my initial problem; What’s the point in me buying all of these games if I’m going to do some heavy neglecting? One game in particular that I’ve really wanted to get is Rock Band, as well as a whole bunch of songs for it. I can understand all of the pricing and everything, and I see it justified. But I don’t know if I can justify it for myself, especially considering I’m more of a solo gamer (and person altogether) than I do multi-player. This particular case is extreme compared to the rest of the games, but the industry itself has gotten much more expensive than it used to be. $60 for a regular game would’ve been unheard of during the GC/XB/PS2 era. Now it’s mostly the standard.

(At this point I’m now noticing that I’m nearly at two pages (single-spaced, sans adding new paragraphs) in word. I’d like to take the time to apologize to anyone who has felt his or her time wasted as a result of this post. I’ll try to wrap this whirlwind of nonsensicals up soon enough.)

Anyway, the real –honest- reason why I bought my 360 in the first place was because of the XBLA. It wasn’t for Halo or Gears or whatever. I was sold on Gastronaut Studio’s Small Arms (Metal Slug meets Super Smash Bros.) and it was really what made me look into other games the service had to offer that I had interest in. Sure I saw regular games like Capcom’s Dead Rising that I liked, but I was more interested in these smaller, cheaper games that were really going against what has become the modern landscape of mainstream video games. (As a result, this later made me particularly eager for the soon-to-be-launched WiiWare service)

Now let’s get to what brings me here. I’m actually just going to do this next bit in a somewhat bulleted fashion, since I can’t, for the life of me, figure out how to get some of these thoughts out cohesively. But I feel these are all relevant somehow:

1. I’ve been recently ‘borrowing’ comic books from ‘friends’ lately, and I recently made my first series of comic book purchases (or trades, in this case) since probably before the year 2000. I’m thinking about continuing to do this and cut back on my gaming a bit, since it’s much harder to not complete a comic book than a video game (...in my opinion at least). I’ve also realized what kind of great stories you just don’t seem to get out of gaming in comparison to this kind of medium
2. Indy gaming has been really unavoidable for me for the past two/three weeks or so for some reason. 4colorrebellion.com has recently started a weekly feature focusing on showcasing free indie games (such as Banana Nabana and Shotgun Ninja). Eegra.com has a couple reviews (Mighty Jill Off, Plasma Warrior) as well. And just by chance I was just reading a post on Kotaku that was showcasing ROM CHECK FAIL (which I just noticed earlier this evening was a part of TIGS’ VGVN contest). And this isn’t even including the general popular mentions as of late for games like Eets and N+ getting the XBLA treatment, Super Columbine Massacre RPG!, Aquaria, among other general things over the previous months.
3. Two nights ago (Tuesday) I stumble upon this site and do a little reading and get myself familiar with indie gaming. Yesterday I spent a good couple of hours straight reading all 103 (as of now) pages of blog posts to pick out a bunch of indie games to check out at a later time. Although after typing all of this out, I have this feeling that I’m going to do much of what I did with the regular games with these as well. But at the very least, I wanted to check out this side of gaming I’ve never really taken a good look at before. I can definitely say that much has happened in the past less than two years.

Anyway, I feel like when I started this I had some kind of goal in mind for the ‘end.’ I think I was thinking about game suggestions, but after looking through hundreds of blog posts, I’ve more or less got that covered. Then I was thinking about how-to’s on where to start in terms of making games, but then I realized I have no skills with any kind of art or game programs or anything like that. So in other words, I think I’ve been typing in circles for the last three pages. Maybe I just needed to vent about modern day gaming to an audience that I think would understand?

Any kind of thoughts would be appreciated. And, again, I apologize to anyone who felt their time had been wasted reading this.

[superflat]

Hi MisterSmith, welcome to the boards.  I'm a newbie here too, and I completely understand where you're coming from.

I think this is a problem indicative of the media-overload age we live in.  Also perhaps of a greater problem of thinking that material possessions will somehow fill a void in modern society.

I recently learned that buying less 'things' actually makes me appreciate what I have more.  I will get excited about maybe one movie, TV show, game or band at once and try to get into it as much as I can without giving in to the temptation of other 'things'.  I recently decided for example that the one game I needed to play was Capcom's Zelda - The Minish Cap and went through a ridiculous quest to try and locate a western copy here in Tokyo.  Boy did I enjoy it though!

I haven't bought any new games since then (I don't yet own a next-gen machine) but I've borrowed a couple from my brothers, like the GC Twilight Princess.  In the meantime I satisfy myself with little enjoyable indie games.  I think one problem is the ridiculous length of modern games.  It's not always a problem, except when they're obviously artificially lengthened just to claim '40-plus hours of gameplay!' or whatever - which many are.  I think this is why man people are turning to casual and indie games.  Smaller in scope, but just as creative.

Like you, I don't really know what my point is, but I feel what you're saying and my solution is simple - to buy less stuff!  I'm still catching up on hundreds of older things.  There's probably only 5 games I want on next-gen so far (MGSIV, FFXIII, Mario Galaxy, No More Heroes, SFIIHD - all but one are sequels, eww.).  So I'd rather wait until they're more affordable and get just as much pleasure from older, simpler titles.

I'm loving my DS the most because it provides short, sweet bursts of gameplay.  I think perhaps the problem is time in a lot of cases - we simply don't have enough, we're growing older and don't have school holidays anymore...  I highly recommend checking out some of the indie titles you've mentioned.  And you don't end up buying even more 'things' you don't need, just adding to the ridiculous waste we humans perpetuate.

As for making games - well you've come to the right place.  There's loads of  friendly and well-informed people here who'll help you out.  My suggestion would be to look into something simple like Game Maker.  See what Cactus is up to with it http://www.cactus-soft.co.nr/.  I've heard it's simple and it's certainly capable of polished products.  Derek Yu, the guy who runs the site, also made his first game in it.  Don't forget to start simple - try to re-create Pong, Pacman or Tetris and that'll go a long way to teaching you the basics.  Don't start with a MMORPG!

Anyway, nice to have you here, and what an interesting first post.

[deadeye]

That was one mighty post.  Yowza.  And I thought I was wordy.

Anyway, the "can't finish games" phenomenon is something I experience as well, only for me it's been going on for quite some time.  I'm pretty sure it stems from the fact that, no matter how glitzy a "new" game is, it's not really new.  I've played it before.  I've been playing it for years.

It's the game industry, man.  It's as stale as an old man's dying breath.

Hell, I never even finished Okami.  It's sitting right over there on my shelf.  It was a beautiful looking game, and had a somewhat interesting "twist" of a game mechanic, but overall... I've played that game before.  And that game is called The Ocarina of Time.  And I've played the hell out of Ocarina of Time already.  And then I played the Ocarina of Time again when they called it Majora's Mask.  Then I played the Ocarina of Time again when they called it Wind Waker.  Then again when they called it Twilight Princess.  Only each time they remade Ocarina of Time and gave it a different name, it wasn't as fun.  So when they made Ocarina of Time this last time and called it Okami, I was just about sick of Ocarina of Time.

I didn't realize this while I was playing.  It took me a long time to figure out why I wasn't interested in going back to Okami.  But I'll keep it around, because every now and then I do get a hankering to reminisce on old games.  Next time I feel the urge to play Ocarina of Time I'll take Okami off the shelf.

Sure, there are some interesting new commercial games out.  But the independent scene is much more experimental.  Not all of it, mind you.  Not every indie game is ground-breaking.  But a big enough portion is to keep me interested and want to support it.

As for your final point on breaking into developing games, if you want to give it a go then as superflat said, start off with something simple like Game Maker (though I'm quite sure Derek used to use MMF, not Game Maker, but that's beside the point).  There are an abundance of forums (like this one for example) that will help you learn if you need it.  And don't worry about art.  There are lots of good games with bad art.

Of course, there are lots of bad games with bad art too.  Just don't make those ones and you'll be fine.

[skaldicpoet9]

I played the Ocarina of Time when it was still called A Link to the Past

[deadeye]

I played the Ocarina of Time when it was still called A Link to the Past

That doesn't count... it's in a class of it's own. 

[skaldicpoet9]

lol

[Zaphos]

Just saw this story on 1up about why people don't finish games anymore, thought it was an interesting addition to this discussion -- http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=0&cId=3167066

Of course, there are lots of bad games with bad art too.  Just don't make those ones and you'll be fine.

I would say, rather, it's okay to start with making some bad games.  It's useful to get your hands dirty and go through the process, without worrying too much about whether what you make will be good or not.

[Gravious]

links awakening was the best zelda game.

[deadeye]

I would say, rather, it's okay to start with making some bad games.  It's useful to get your hands dirty and go through the process, without worrying too much about whether what you make will be good or not.

I agree with you, it was just a joke.

[Smithy]

Back in the early nineties people gave up on games all the time. Used to be you'd rent contra, spend a good couple hours going at it, and then you'd put it down when you were tired of getting your ass repeatedly handed to you by the level four boss.

Then in the late nineties and early 2000s games were suddenly easier, and (I know I'm going to get torn apart for this, but it's true) more story driven than challenge driven. It was a more experimental medium for story telling.

Now the stories are getting stale and formulaic. People don't really care as much about the characters in the games as they did in the late nineties and early 2000s. I think that's a big part of why people don't finish games as often anymore.

We need to form some sort of Dada gaming movement and deconstruct the ruts!

[deadeye]

Then in the late nineties and early 2000s games were suddenly easier, and (I know I'm going to get torn apart for this, but it's true)

No, I'm totally with you on that one.  Games are way too easy nowadays. 

And I can't stand it when games spoon-feed you your next move.  Big blinking dots on 3D maps that pop up without your asking, nagging reminders, huge pointing arrows, and so on.

You know what game I'm most proud of beating ever?  Metroid.  No maps, no giudes... that shit took work.  When I finally beat it after months of trying, I was elated.

And the sequel that most disappointed me?  Metroid Prime.  Beat it in two and a half days, thanks to the damn hint system.  Good job, Nintendo.

[MisterSmith]

Superflat:

Thank you for the welcome.

Anyway, I think I should consider buying less (or at least look into buying less games in the future). Deadeye made a good point in comparing Okami and all the Zeldas together, being essentially twists of each other. I've never really looked at that way. In hindsight I could've probably done without some of the series I had put money into sequel after sequel. The new Prince of Persia trilogy and the Advance Wars series after AW2 come to mind immediately. Granted, knowing my luck, I'll manage to get suckered into buying them somehow. But I'll think of something to cut back.

Deadeye:

Haha, most of my posts aren't usually as wordy as this one. Ever so often I get writing bursts like this about something that's on my mind. This one was unusually long, but I'm usually a lot less wordy when I'm not writing with some purpose in mind.

Anyway, about me breaking into making games...my point about bad graphics is that I have no artistic talent whatsoever. I mean I can't even do stick figures all that well. Truthfully, I suppose I'd go with a heavily pixelated style more than anything. I've seen screens of games like Cave Story and La Mulana, and I love the general style the two have. (Granted, that's if their general old school styles are even comparable to one another in the first place) But I have to start at the bottom to work my way up. Would you know if there are any general how-to guides floating around to get started?

Oh, and anyone know if it's possible to get a Guitar Hero controller to work on a non-Guitar Hero game?

Zaphos:

I forgot to mention that article in my main post, but that was another thing that made me realize my problem in the first place.

[justinfic]

I'm in the same boat. I have at least 50 unfinished games here, and some that are just barely out of the shrinkwrap, with maybe 30 minutes to an hour of playtime on them. Yet, I still find myself going back to the same 4-5 games, which I'll gladly log tons of hours. I normally wouldn't have a problem with this, I'd just say I'm losing interest, but I'm still buying them.

My solution will probably be to use a rental service instead, like Gamefly or similar programs at the retail chains. That way, when I inevitably lose interest in them in favor of a newer shinier game, I can just swap them out. Honestly, out of the last 30 games I've bought, at least 25 of them would have been better off as rentals. It would really suck to rent & play these games knowing I have no intention of finishing them, but it's what I'm doing anyway, and I might as well save myself the money.

[Golds]

Whoa, Justin Fic!  Awesome to see you've made your way over to the TIGS forums!  They're like a livelier, more all-encompassing iDevGames.

Sorry, offtopic.   

p.s.  dude you need to get an intel mac w/ boot camp or a cheap windows box and check out some of the indie stuff on the win32 side.  There's a bunch of stuff I know you'd be totally into.