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[gimymblert]

Hello

In b4 pixel prospector makes the big list of game production resource
I'm trying to budget some of my concept and I want to know what is the average cost of different kind of assets to take into account or if there is some article about this issue.
I'm not seeking for (just) artist fee but how they translate in term of asset unit/hour.

[gimymblert]

Hello

I have been digging for a while to find correct estimation of average price regarding some assets. While I understand there is many factor to take into account, as you made budget, it's better to have the right order of scale to prepare your project. (price are in $ or €, it seems that number are roughly similar whatever the currency)

ART:

Artiste takes from 10 up to 45 by hour

In this update, i have compile some information about 3D models:

A barrel, box or crate, $10+
An empty simple warehouse structure, $200+
A series of map objects, pillars, arches, doorways, $500+
A small empty 'industrial' level, no map objects, $500+
A larger empty 'industrial' level, no map objects, $2000+
A 'city' scape level, no map objects, $5000+
A large level including terrain and buildings, no map objects, $5000+
A character model 1000 triangles or less, rigged, no animation, $500+
A character model 2500 triangles or less, rigged, no animation, $1000+
A character model 5000 triangles or less, rigged no animation, $2500+
A character model 5000 triangles or less, rigged with animations (walk, run, jump, etc.), $5000+
Content for small virtual world, $5,000+
Content for a large virtual world, $10,000+

EDIT:
main source http://www.katsbits.com/articles/how-much-should-i-charge-for-freelance-3d-modeling-work.php
Other source gave roughly the same average price

[moi]

I don't know some of these sound a bit expensive to me.
You can also check out for royalty free websites with 3d assets (Daz3d, 3DRT, cornucopia3D,etc....)

[gimymblert]

On contrary these are darn cheap!
500€ mean a ~6 hours job with 10€/h (assuming your a beginner).
10€ is for 1600€ month which is cheap for living expense (assuming you got booked everyday a month).
I guess you can have a generic 1K poly model rigged and textured done in 3hours (without revision)
Most artist i have work with in the industry worked for ~37€/h
One next gen model take 1 mouth to do "minimum"

(but now i'm documenting time)

And site like that won't have the exact model and the animation you need, graphics are the most specific part of game (Koté ou pé pren yonn dé model makrel with koutla an lè net la?  ).

EDIT:
Of course there is always negotiation and arrangement that can be made (royalties and such), but i think it's a good idea to know the value of your game.

Also assuming average quality

[bateleur]

500€ mean a ~6 hours job with 10€/h

I don't understand what you're getting at here?

At 10€/h it sounds like 500€ should pay for 50 hours of work.

[MrGando]

500€ mean a ~6 hours job with 10€/h

I don't understand what you're getting at here?

At 10€/h it sounds like 500€ should pay for 50 hours of work.

+1 To that!

I'm really interested in the 3D price estimation, but I don't quite understand the estimation. 

[moi]

On contrary these are darn cheap!

I agree these can be in the acceptable price range for custom made models. I was thinking royalty-free models.

500€ mean a ~6 hours job with 10€/h (assuming your a beginner).
10€ is for 1600€ month which is cheap for living expense (assuming you got booked everyday a month).

But this is business, wether the contractor can buy food or not is irrelevant to the price scheme.(Enjoy your capitalism and freedom).

And site like that won't have the exact model and the animation you need, graphics are the most specific part of game (Koté ou pé pren yonn dé model makrel with koutla an lè net la?  ).

So why don't you do it yourself, modelling isn't that difficul if you can draw, with something like sculptris you can make good cartoony models rather fast (the import pipeline might be the tricky part). Epi sé patriot-la key kontan si sé an produit PIL.

[gimymblert]

500€ mean a ~6 hours job with 10€/h (assuming your a beginner).
10€ is for 1600€ month which is cheap for living expense (assuming you got booked everyday a month).

But this is business, wether the contractor can buy food or not is irrelevant to the price scheme.(Enjoy your capitalism and freedom).

Yep but i need to know the truth before negociation   I'm making the business plan, i need to know on average what is the deal, for managing expectations.
By the way, according to my research, if your lucky you can find excellent artist for 7.5€ in some poor country (ex: from ex urss). But when i was in the industry, my colleague worked for 37,5€ (per hour)

And site like that won't have the exact model and the animation you need, graphics are the most specific part of game (Koté ou pé pren yonn dé model makrel with koutla an lè net la?   ).

So why don't you do it yourself, modelling isn't that difficul if you can draw, with something like sculptris you can make good cartoony models rather fast (the import pipeline might be the tricky part).

I can draw and I learned to modelize. But if I can't handle it i would need to outsource a bit. Sculptris is for hi poly, not very suitable for game, except for an expensive asset pipeline that include normal map, that mean more realitic or detailed models. I'm a "bit" weak on environment too!

Epi sé patriot-la key kontan si sé an produit PIL.

marketing  

But i will try "international" version too (mostly english, but spanish is geolocally sounded). Since i try on high concept content rather than detailed story, i kept it simple and understandable without the reference.

500€ mean a ~6 hours job with 10€/h

I don't understand what you're getting at here?

At 10€/h it sounds like 500€ should pay for 50 hours of work.

+1 To that!

I'm really interested in the 3D price estimation, but I don't quite understand the estimation.  

i'm so stupid
That's actually nearly one week, it make sense since good texturing eat some more time.


EDIT:
Now I need to document time per graphic asset type more precisely:

GUI screens
Illustrations
Sprite 2D (animated and non animated):
Pixel art
hand drawn

3D models:

Modeling only
____Quality> DS (under 500 poly per char)
____Quality> PS2 (1000~2000 poly per char)
____Quality> next gen (5000~8000 poly per char)
____quality> cinematics (show me your million)
Rigging
Animations

Textures:

Type
Diffuse + alpha --(total: 2 maps per model)
+ details normal map + details map(without hirez baking)--(total: 4 maps per model)
+ spec et gloss --(total: 6 maps per model)
+ normal map (baking from hirez "zbrush") --(total: 7 map per model)
+ shader and special map --(total: up to 8 maps per model)

Rez
128
256
512
1024
2048
4096
quality> cinematic

Other asset to review: Music, jingles and sfx
EDIT 2: quick rough estimation. with the 10/40€ range we have (2D and 3D artists):

efficient artist (the one i used to work with in the industry)
1 day = 6h of work >60€ - 240€
1 week = 24h = 4 days >240€ - 960€
1 month = 4 weeks = 16 days = 96 hours >960€ - 3840€

Line up with the 4000€ salaries some get in the industry, in film industry i have heard it's up to 8000€ a month. The day off the week is dedicate to self improvement generally. In the society i was, they were capable of doing more jobs than team 10 times their scales! With a much lower budget we could match in quality other studio. (see some of their work here: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=563267 and here http://hjdaniel.cgsociety.org/gallery/197473/ for the lead animator and here for the rest of the team: http://www.skymonkeystudio.com/ there is no mocap in the animation, too bad hubert's animation is down!)

But yeah time generally look more like this:

Slower artist
1 day = 8h of work >80€ - 320€
1 week = 5 days = 40h >400€ - 1200€
1 month = 4 weeks = 20 days = 160 hours >1600€ to 6400€

When ask for a next gen quality models a former colleague says it would cost ~10 000€ (it takes artist in my former job 1 month to made one with all texture, shader, hirez zbrushed, etc...)

[gimymblert]

Since i have some trouble to find how much time artworks take, i try to derive them from the fee and the price exemple i have. The right time is more likely to be the bold number. Number are found by dividing the price by the fee per hour.

A barrel, box or crate, $10+  = 1h - 15mn
An empty simple warehouse structure, $200+  = 20h - 5h (~2,5 days)
A series of map objects, pillars, arches, doorways, $500+ = 50h - 12,5 (~6,25 days)
A small empty 'industrial' level, no map objects, $500+ = 50h - 12,5 (~6,25 days)
A larger empty 'industrial' level, no map objects, $2000+ = 200h - 50 (~25 days)
A 'city' scape level, no map objects, $5000+  = 500h - 125 (~62,5 days)
A large level including terrain and buildings, no map objects, $5000+ = 500h - 125 (~62,5 days)
A character model 1000 triangles or less, rigged, no animation, $500+ = 50h - 12,5 (~6,25 days)
A character model 2500 triangles or less, rigged, no animation, $1000+ = 100h - 25 (~12,5 days)
A character model 5000 triangles or less, rigged no animation, $2500+ = 250h - 62,5 (~31,25 days)
A character model 5000 triangles or less, rigged with animations (walk, run, jump, etc.), $5000+ = 500h - 125 (~62,5 days)
Content for small virtual world, $5,000+  = 500h - 125 (~62,5 days)
Content for a large virtual world, $10,000+ = 1000h - 250 (~125 days)

reminder
1 day = 8h of work
1 week = 5 days = 40h
1 month = 4 weeks = 20 days = 160 hours

[LemonScented]

Those figures all seem a bit bizarre and nonsensical. Certainly they're presented in a way which isn't very helpful, and I'm not sure how much realistic information you can glean from them. To boil all that down into saying a "small" industrial level costs $500 but a "large" one costs $2000 isn't very meaningful. What constitutes small or large? Are the costs worked out by the square foot or by the polygon? A city probably contains 3 or more industrial estates, for for $5000 could you pay for a whole city, throw away all the non-industrial stuff and save some money? How many doorways do you get for $500? Why is a crate $10 when you can get free crate textures online and anyone can model a cube? Why are higher-poly character models more expensive when quality low-poly modelling is a more difficult and sought-after skill? Shouldn't increasing the poly-count make it cheaper?

What I think people need to know is the price range per hour or day for various types of artist (concept art, 2D UI/sprite work, pixel art, photorealistic textures, modelling, rigging, animation, low-poly, high-poly, environment, objects - these are all different disciplines) and for various levels of experience from hobbyist to senior freelancer. Once you know the rate for different disciplines, you need an idea of how much time a given job is likely to take. Then you can estimate the costs for a given, specific, rigidly-scoped job yourself. I guess the only way to get that information is to talk to as many art freelancers as you can, or perhaps to see if there are any kind of surveys about the matter. But that price list doesn't seem very enlightening at all.

[gimymblert]

Well That's all i could get so far!

I'm also inexperienced, i could not get a real artist rate that yet. All i could is infer from internet various source and some real life approximation.

I was asking here for info, but no one show up, this is only the result of my investigation. But i recently get in touch with old colleague, i will try to make them correct some assumption made here.

Yep skill artist can pull off low poly faster than hi poly. This isn't true that hi poly are faster to do! There is still a lot more details to balance. At least not quality one. And do not forget art consistency! If hi poly was inexpensive game would have been cheaper to make in next gen generation, which is obviously not true as graphic asset ARE the expensive sink.

I have taught myself some basic modeling and once you get "polygon flow", "joint", "silhouette" and "edge loop" (and some artistic flair) it's easy to pull off low poly and pretty good hi poly.

What I think people need to know is the price range per hour or day for various types of artist (concept art, 2D UI/sprite work, pixel art, photorealistic textures, modelling, rigging, animation, low-poly, high-poly, environment, objects - these are all different disciplines) and for various levels of experience from hobbyist to senior freelancer.

Once you know the rate for different disciplines, you need an idea of how much time a given job is likely to take. Then you can estimate the costs for a given, specific, rigidly-scoped job yourself.

That's what i need too

But that price list doesn't seem very enlightening at all.

It's not precise but it still give you order of magnitude.
If you were to make a budget upfront the complete design, you still get roughly what to expect in term of scale. For exemple an animate character cost nearly as much as static asset for the level, the number of character is therefore a huge sink and should be monitor and negociate early.

EDIT: i don't even have a list of competant 3D modeler to ask for precision yet.

[moi]

Since i have some trouble to find how much time artworks take, i try to derive them from the fee and the price exemple i have. The right time is more likely to be the bold number. Number are found by dividing the price by the fee per hour.

Don't try to find a rational way of computing the price, most artists, when asked, will pull out a price out of their hat and try to justify it afterward with imaginary price/hour values. They will chose a price depending on a lot of factors, how they value themselves, if they have a lot of contracts already, if they're hungry, etc,etc...

As for stuff like "crate", "industrial level" or "cityscape", this is the kind of stuff for which royalty free assets exist (unless you're rich lol).

[moi]

Also: why a business plan? You've got investors? Chabin is going to fund you?

[MrGando]

Since i have some trouble to find how much time artworks take, i try to derive them from the fee and the price exemple i have. The right time is more likely to be the bold number. Number are found by dividing the price by the fee per hour.

Don't try to find a rational way of computing the price, most artists, when asked, will pull out a price out of their hat and try to justify it afterward with imaginary price/hour values. They will chose a price depending on a lot of factors, how they value themselves, if they have a lot of contracts already, if they're hungry, etc,etc...

As for stuff like "crate", "industrial level" or "cityscape", this is the kind of stuff for which royalty free assets exist (unless you're rich lol).

And that , doesn't only happen to artistic assets. A lot of freelance devs also pull prices out of their hat! , and then just work through a "plan" to justify the costs ( And to double check they are not screwing up )

Cheers.

[gimymblert]

http://freelanceswitch.com/rates/
Nothing you can double check!

Plus try to work as a freelance and you will see the rationale.

Seriously



And those number are more inline with a fulltime paid artist, freelance must cover their life expense (according to their actual value) and account for downtime. The reason you want to pay a freelance over hiring someone, is the fixed cost and not the monthly sink. No charge, no obligation.

Also: why a business plan? You've got investors? Chabin is going to fund you?

I want to know if there is any viable longterm profit, if i can live out of that or what i need to balance to do it, you don't do it only for funding, you do it for realism.

[Alistair Aitcheson]

http://freelanceswitch.com/rates/

I get a "403 Forbidden" when I try to visit this

I've been negotiating with potential clients over producing a promotional game recently. It didn't work out in the end, but I'm wondering if there's potential in it. So I'm very interested to hear whether other people have had success working to commission, and also what prices clients are willing to pay.

Does anyone know where I could find standard rates for programmers or general development? Or anyone have past experience doing games for commissions and can share what they charged?

[moi]

http://freelanceswitch.com/rates/

I get a "403 Forbidden" when I try to visit this

Are you a witch? This website is exclusively for freelance witches.

[Alistair Aitcheson]

Are you a witch? This website is exclusively for freelance witches.

My broomstick only arrived yesterday so maybe I'm not on the database yet.