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[Carrie Nation]

Well... Even though I see that [A] has already won, I have to say that I think would work better both artistically and in game... He just looks like he's about to fall over now, and he seems to lack personality without a nose... wish we could have both

I love the fact that you just tried to type B and ended up bolding the rest of your post so much.

[mokesmoe]

B looks like he has a giant chin to me, which looks odd. I don't see this nose you are talking about.

[droqen]

Implemented - one BIG EMPTY ROOM

Inky = Fastest Horizontal, Wall-Jump, Kick Attack, Slide Ability
Pinky = Slowest X-Accel, 2nd Slowest Max Speed, Charge Attack, Lowest Jump
Blinky = 2nd Fastest Horizontal, No Special Abilities Yet (will have Pew Pew Attack)
Clyde = Slowest Horizontal, Highest Jump (Inky is lower but has walljumps), Cap Shield (will have Stomp Attack)

All characters = Unable to change facing in mid-air -- Inky can change direction when wall-jumping

[mikewest]

Well... Even though I see that [A] has already won, I have to say that I think would work better both artistically and in game... He just looks like he's about to fall over now, and he seems to lack personality without a nose... wish we could have both

I love the fact that you just tried to type B and ended up bolding the rest of your post so much.

Seconded.


My vote goes to B because the sprite looks significantly bulkier/heavier than A to me.  If the problem with B is the shadow under the eyes, I think it looks fine with the shadow removed or moved to under the chin/mouth/bulge.

Anyway, the demo looks and feels very smooth.  I am excited to see the next upload.

[droqen]

development ideas; enjoy

Inky can jump quickly, run faster than anyone else, and can slide underneath enemies -- also, he (it?) can walljump to get around enemies, either to avoid them completely or to come at them from behind.

Blinky has decent speed but an only modest jump height. He has no notion of close-up combat either, able only to whittle down the health of enemies from far away. He may also have a charge-up attack.

Pinky has a rushing charge attack, now with a wind-up before it activates. He's got bad speed and the worst jump height-- however, he has a lot of health. I'm trying to think of a way to make his charge ability interesting? It has been decided, however, that he can't cancel a charge until he hits a wall. Careful! I may need to add some kind of secondary attack

Clyde has the highest jump out of anyone (Inky can walljump to much greater heights though) and through this can stomp on enemies to kill them. He's also invincible from above, or from the front when he holds his cap shield ahead of him.

~ ~ ~ Taking Damage & Dishing it Out

Blinky's attack, contrary to the first post, will actually have the weakest attack (it will certainly not be negligible, however).
Inky's attack is fairly powerful but short-ranged and dangerous to use.
Pinky will have a powerful attack that is able to accidentally strike allies as well; it will require horizontal stretches to function properly.
Clyde's stomp is a powerful attack as well, but requires open vertical spaces to function at full strength or indeed at all.

When damage is dealt, it will chip away at a stamina bar that, when depleted, signifies the loss of one heart. You will also fall over. Hearts cannot be restored, but stamina can be. If you must, think of the two as health and lives!

However, enemies will also work on the stamina-and-hearts system.

Okay, last of all...
<exact values removed>
Inky will be pretty low on health.
Clyde will also be not so great, but the shield absorbs huge amounts of damage.
Blinky will not be so tough.
Pinky will have the most health.
(er. health, stamina, whatever. doesn't matter in a game with a wordless HUD, right? :x)

Remember:

THESE HAVE ALL JUST BEEN IDEAS; I HAVE YET TO SEE HOW WELL THESE IDEAS FUNCTION IN-GAME :D

I am thinking that as most characters (even Inky on occasion) you will take damage in combat unless you play ridiculously well. So it's not so much about avoiding everything, but rather just... staying as safe as you can. Or something like that.

There's a great void between one-hit-dead games, concrete damage value games (like Spelunky), and chip away at a health pool games (like most FPS).

And then there's Iji which is actually kinda similar to this!

[mokesmoe]

Inky reminds me of the scout from TF2. (which is a good thing)
Everything sounds great, but a few quick questions:
How does stamina go about being restored?
Can Pinky jump during a charge?
Will there be any specific character interactions, like puzzles that only the right two characters can solve?

[droqen]

Inky reminds me of the TF2 scout too o: there are obvious differences but that certainly doesn't stop my brain.

Stamina may be restored by items or at checkpoints, maybe only by a certain increment each time. Who knows? nevertheless, definitely not a 'sit around and wait for it to recharge' kind of thing.

Pinky may or may not be able to jump during a charge. I'm thinking about it. If you do, though, then you'll definitely be vulnerable while in the air.

Finally...
At the moment, there are no specific plans for that. However, there will probably be a bunch of things that require one character to do something generic (for example, fight alone or jump over some platforms or something) while the other does something else (examples: Blinky hacks, Inky explores crazy tunnels, Clyde protects, Pinky smashes walls or doors)


edit ::

That said, I'm still not sure whether I want to premake a whole bunch of levels, or generate them, or have some kind of... mysterious blend. Whatever. That can wait.

TRY THE LATEST VERSION: HERE

WSAD = Move Inky
C = Jump Inky (hold for walljump)
V = Inky Kick / Inky Slide (try while standing still and while moving)

ARROWS = Move Pinky
K = Jump Pinky
L = Charge Pinky (let me know how you like it)

Seriously, though. I'm going to bed.

edit ~ I know that you can Jump while charging in this build, and that doing so makes wall collisions act weird. Don't consider either of these facts final.

[mokesmoe]

To have interesting puzzles, completely random probably won't work. Sticking pre-made segments together randomly could work really well. Enemies could definitely be randomly placed as well.

[droqen]

I'm probably going to do a bunch of large single-screen areas as opposed to a really big scrolling area (to reduce the complications inherent to two players on one screen). Also, check out the link in my previous post.

Maybe the level could be made of a bunch of premade screens put together, with random enemy spawns from the exits or something :3

[mokesmoe]

I think jumping while chargeing is a good idea, even just for the sake of not completely taking away all the player's controls.
Also, I think the slide should have friction, especially if he's invincible while doing it.

[mikewest]

I think jumping while chargeing is a good idea, even just for the sake of not completely taking away all the player's controls.
Also, I think the slide should have friction, especially if he's invincible while doing it.

I agree on both.

Also, did you build in two kinds of wall jumps?  When I jump in the direction of a wall (and let go of c) and then press c again, I wall jump straight up rather than jumping away from the wall.

[J. R. Hill]

Whoa, this is awesome!

[DanFornace]

Cool, I really like the feel of the characters so far. I would love it more if the characters were solid too so the little guy could jump off the rhino and ride him and whatnot. Would require some precise collision checking but it would really add to the puzzles and interactivity of the two players.

I really like the ideas though, and would love to play with a buddy haha. I think the more characters you have the better as it would really add to the re-playability with all the combinations that could be made. But of course some can be really similar in what they can do puzzle wise, just look and move(friction, jump speed) a little different haha.


I am actually developing a similar multiplayer game myself right now and am also struggling with how to do the levels (stages since mine is a fighter heh). I wanted to do randomly generated, but I have never done it before and am not sure where to start. However, your idea of designing pieces seems pretty good. Could you explain how you would do it in theory?


-Dan

[droqen]

Dan: Once I figure it out myself I'll let you know. The plan was to just build a whole bunch of full screens, each with the same exits, and just tile them together in a random way.

~~~

Health system slightly revamped in my mind? I am inexorably drawn to discrete health values.

Inky: Three Hearts
Pinky: Three Hearts, but each heart can take two hits and regenerates if only 1 damage is taken over a short period of time.
Blinky: Three Hearts, plus a shield. The only character who can drain power out of machines. This power is used as a shield, or can be added to unpowered machines.
Clyde: Three Hearts, however cap shield will defend against all damage.

Everyone gets three 'lives', or 'hearts', but each has a different ability to avoid or absorb damage. Simply touching an enemy won't be enough to take damage, though you will be knocked back if you're smaller. (Following this rule, Pinky will be able to knock most enemies over just by running into them normally!)

again, this is not at all final. I'm working on enemies, obstacles, and determining level layouts

... also elevators

~~~

I am leaning more and more towards making the terrain generation more like that of Probability 0, by which I mean totally random and the game more about creative pathfinding than explicit puzzles. However, I don't think that would work too well for this and I'd like to have a sense of exploration.

Currently I'm considering an Elevator Action (game) - like elevator system, with three (... or maybe more) floors per screen. Still, that wouldn't give me quite the terrain variety I'd like to have.

[QOG]

Dan: Once I figure it out myself I'll let you know. The plan was to just build a whole bunch of full screens, each with the same exits, and just tile them together in a random way.

~~~

Health system slightly revamped in my mind? I am inexorably drawn to discrete health values.

Inky: Three Hearts
Pinky: Three Hearts, but each heart can take two hits and regenerates if only 1 damage is taken over a short period of time.
Blinky: Three Hearts, plus a shield. The only character who can drain power out of machines. This power is used as a shield, or can be added to unpowered machines.
Clyde: Three Hearts, however cap shield will defend against all damage.

Everyone gets three 'lives', or 'hearts', but each has a different ability to avoid or absorb damage. Simply touching an enemy won't be enough to take damage, though you will be knocked back if you're smaller. (Following this rule, Pinky will be able to knock most enemies over just by running into them normally!)

again, this is not at all final. I'm working on enemies, obstacles, and determining level layouts

... also elevators

~~~

I am leaning more and more towards making the terrain generation more like that of Probability 0, by which I mean totally random and the game more about creative pathfinding than explicit puzzles. However, I don't think that would work too well for this and I'd like to have a sense of exploration.

Currently I'm considering an Elevator Action (game) - like elevator system, with three (... or maybe more) floors per screen. Still, that wouldn't give me quite the terrain variety I'd like to have.

I feel like it would be clearer if you just gave them different numbers of hearts, otherwise it would be like "What does this set of three hearts mean?" which is probably not what you're looking for.
Edit: it would also be cool if the smaller characters could jump on top of the larger ones.

[droqen]

( To everyone talking about this: ) I have tried smaller characters jumping on larger ones but bouncy walks, difficulties of velocity... it's all making things very difficult ;_; and recently I have abandoned those bits of code, considering them more trouble than they're worth.

That's a good point, though, with the hearts.

[baconman]

Another interesting variation to consider on the characters:

One gets 3 "extra lives" that they can replenish, and they alone can utilize checkpoints/restarts. They inflict contact damage, but must protect against all attacks manually.

One gets 5 HP, but only one life. So they can recover life, and switch between multiple items/abilities; but if they're taken out, they're totally screwed.

The other two get 3 HP apiece, and can "rescue" one another - but they can only utilize one ability at a time, so one has to compensate for the other.

[droqen]

FLASH PLAY LINK
Now with ELEVATORS AND AN ACTUAL LEVEL

Most recently I've added ogmo editor support, and elevators. And tiles and such.

Elevator graphics need some fiddling (especially the little light that gets hidden when the elevator is up against a ceiling) but they are, overall, pretty good!

Soon there will be a sector exit door that only opens when both players are within a certain distance of it, allowing you to travel from one room to the next.

Attacks are still in, but they have no purpose.

So...

Clyde: WSAD moves and operates elevators. C jumps.
Inky: ^v<> moves and operates elevators. K jumps and, of course, walljumps.

Make sure you don't stand in the safety precaution deactivator field of the elevator!


---> pcg may be abandoned. baconman, variety in health systems sounds pretty cool! I'll screw around with that when I get to actually adding health and damage :]

[mokesmoe]

If you walk on top of an elevator as it goes down past you, you get pulled down into the wall.
You just need to be standing on the edge of the top of the elevator, but this is the only way to do it aside from being pulled down out of the wall.

[droqen]

oh shit :D thanks for catching.

fixed! (uploaded version still broken)