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[weasello]

Hey!

You guys are talking about me like I'm not even here :C

I'm the Andy Moore in question. I think a lot of debate on this can be cleared up by me pointing out one little fact: I don't say the average game gets a primary sponsorship of $2K and is crappy - I say the average game gets $2K in lifetime revenue.

So the initial sponsorship can be $500-1500 or so, and then you get 6-12 months of ad revenue or whatever other bonuses that slowly add up, not to mention the occasional $200-500 siteLock license (if you're lucky, on a shitty game).

Now I'll further clarify that a bit: 50% of games [listed for sale] fail to sell, and the other 50% gets ~$4000 in lifetime revenue, meaning the average is $2K. But when the average game listed for sale only takes 2 weeks to make...

So crank out two games per month: and you'll make $2K/mo, which is enough to live on in any country in the world (you might have to sell your hummer and not go to taco bell anymore, but you can survive in modest comfort in even the most expensive cities).

[joulimousis]

Andy! At last!

I don't think that 50% of games up on FGL gets 500-1500$ on sponsorship, that's far too optimistic. For what I know (from fellow developers and own experience), only a few games get that kind of money.
Taking that into consideration, I don't think you can really make two selling games a month. But that's another kind of discussion.

Thanks for your answer!

[mirosurabu]

Hey Andy, just curious - where did you get the lifetime revenue stats from? Is that available on FGL?

[compositeredfox]

The more I learn about the flash games industry the more different it seems from what I first thought it was. o_O

[OddGoo]

These are my published flash games so far =)

http://www.kongregate.com/accounts/oddgoo

Amberial Nebulosa and Axis (Both made in under a month) have been gathering a revenue well over 8k each (tho contests were also involved), while the others are at around 1k-ish.

My problem, tho, is the lack of perseverance, with over 25 games at alpha or beta stage.

At the moment im working in some per-contract games for specific organizations, which has its own cons and pros as well.

Here at Tigsource im more of a lurker than anything else, but Id really love to contribute to the community whatever I can, and as a consequence feel more accountable and pressured to be more productive.

[weasello]

FGL recently updated their statistics, but the numbers are spread out around their site (and are hard to link to as they require logins in some cases).

On FGL in 09/2010:
- 342 games were listed for bidding
- of those, 135 games "accepted a bid."

Ignoring the fact that some people sell outside of FGL or decide to self-sponsor (thus dragging down the statistics), that's 40% of all games getting sold. It's easy to imagine the number is probably closer to 50%.

The newly posted sales statistics show the MEDIAN (was average two weeks ago) "accepted bid" as being somewhere around $1.5K on average [depending on genre (dressup doll games make less than $800, RPGs make over $4K)].

FGL including the new Median data is really nice; the old "average" showed skewed statistics when some bids went for astronomically large amounts (averages used to trend $2.5-3K). We can't access the averages anymore so the 09/2010 data is median-only.

There's no "lifetime revenue stats" because nobody collates and collects the data properly, but you can ask around and get a feel for "resonable figures". Working from our $1.5K starting price;

- Most sitelocks or secondary sales go for $100-500 (if you get them; not many do)
- Releasing a viral version of the game with preloader ads can fairly easily get you $10-50/month
- Performance bonuses and various contests may add revenue as well

If you want to get technical you can start going off into intangible benefits, like portfolios and brand recognition, etc., but I won't touch those here

So it's easy to see the average sponsored game getting $2K in lifetime revenue. To get your game sponsored you simply have to generate an above average game. If your head is in the triple-A space, making an above average game is no small feat; fortunately, we are locked deeply into the "casual/hobbyist" market, and making an above-average game is pretty easy.

edit: but even if you don't take my word for it, the above data should at least make it clear that it is SUPER DEAD SIMPLE EASY to get $1K for a project you take seriously. You still have to work hard to get $2K.

[moi]

I jutst took a dump this morning after thinking about flash games and what do you know, there I found a $1000 banknote in the bowl. 
Everybody should write flash games IMHO.

[slakinov]

Just wanted to say this thread is a massive help!

I released a game that took about 3 days to make with Mochiads 3 years ago, it's had over 400,000 views but only made around $200, which is cack.

My latest game has taken me about 10 months of occasional evenings and weekends so I'm keen to make a bit of money from this one! It's been sitting on FGL for a few days now but nothing so far.

TBH after reading all these stories I'm tempted to just self-release with some ads and attempt to build my own brand up. Hopefully with each new release all my old games will get another bump of traffic. Anyone had any experience building up their own site in this way?

[CFreq]

Who around here has made, at least, 2k with a crappy game?

To answer the question, I made that and then some with Game Maker.
http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showtopic=279075
---> http://www.playcreek.com/deathworm/

(See what I did there?)

[Triplefox]

TBH after reading all these stories I'm tempted to just self-release with some ads and attempt to build my own brand up. Hopefully with each new release all my old games will get another bump of traffic. Anyone had any experience building up their own site in this way?

I decided that I hate the whole "make sales calls to sponsors" approach, so I started along this route a few months ago, putting up a hand-curated portal site entirely based on the Mochi feed, and then spending a tiny amount on ads. Only took a few days of headaches, most of it quality filtering the 1000's of games on the feed. It still gets a little traffic, even after I went through the ad budget.

The next business step, I think, is to make a viral game to promote the portal, and get it "by hook or by crook" into NG, Kong, Mochi feed etc. I think that once I have a few games like that, the portal is likely to make some serious money. Traffic and ad revenue is a percentage game; you only need to get 2% improvements ~40 times before you've doubled your numbers. But I'm getting into making a largish, pay-in-open-beta type of game now, not little viral things, which is making me think I should promote the one game separately from the portal. Kind of drifted away from that first business goal...

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Who around here has made, at least, 2k with a crappy game?

To answer the question, I made that and then some with Game Maker.
http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showtopic=279075
---> http://www.playcreek.com/deathworm/

(See what I did there?)

hpapillon has us all beat: she made $100,000+ with a game maker game (cute knight)

[CFreq]

Well there's something to aim for!
Guess I should check that game out...

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

it's basically a princess maker clone, although somewhat different, and a bit shorter, but with more options / alternative endings.

[ness io kain]

Warning: This post has little, if anything, to do with the topic at hand.

Who around here has made, at least, 2k with a crappy game?

To answer the question, I made that and then some with Game Maker.
http://gmc.yoyogames.com/index.php?showtopic=279075
---> http://www.playcreek.com/deathworm/

(See what I did there?)

YOU ARE THE DEATH WORM GUY?
I LOVE YOU.
I have been wondering where you went for... probably years.
I didn't know about the iPhone/iPod/iPad version; that's pretty sweet! I was never very happy about the poor visuals and borrowed music in the original game (I thought the rest of it was fantastic, though; don't worry!). Too bad I don't have any of the iP__ things.