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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsAdventure Marne Bros
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pen
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« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2010, 06:05:14 AM »



Looks wonderful so far. I played around with the editor a bit, and from some very simple (though tasteful and not at all too easily made) building blocks some really neat things occurred.

Your projects are often jaw-dropping, I'll be paying close attention to this as it progresses, hopefully I might even be able to give some kind of useful comments.
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sergiocornaga
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« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2010, 06:19:55 AM »

I played around with the underground pal yesterday and brought it closer to the source. I thought the overground BG fog was too wimpy so I tried a (relative to blue) warm (gray) light and purple shadow (I don't think it's working though).

I think it is! Or at least, it's my favourite of the background colour combinations so far... a step in the right direction, if not a solution.
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« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2010, 12:14:18 PM »

I really REALLY loved the blue tinted background. It worked very well with the orange blocks. The new warmer tiles are a bit /too/ aggressive I think.

I liked the idea of the atmosphere making things retain their saturation but just change hue and detail. Now it seems kind of depressing that when things are farther away they turn gray.

It works better in the underground than it did before though. c:
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« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2010, 02:19:02 PM »

I really REALLY loved the blue tinted background.
[...]
Now it seems kind of depressing that when things are farther away they turn gray.

Just what I was thinking. Plus I don't think both at the same time wouldn't work too well...
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sereneworx
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« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2010, 04:10:13 PM »

I really love the depth that you've given some tiles, having some receded into the block of ground. Adds another dimension and all that.
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Greg Game Man
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« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2010, 10:51:46 PM »

Why would you reduce yourself to pixels?

I've seen your art and its incredible.
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Arne
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« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2010, 12:38:29 AM »

I like the blue better too. Maybe I'll make it a 50% compromise.

I was thinking about doing a more painted variant of the graphics, some 300% size. But I felt like pixeling a bit.


 Hand Thumbs Down Left Ran into a problem. Right now my blocks are instances in an array. An empty cell is a null pointer, and otherwise it's a reference to an instance of my TBlock type (class).

Block:TBlock[MAP_WIDTH_TILES, MAP_HEIGHT_TILES]

This way I can give each block a bunch of properties and it probably saves memory since I don't have to create an array layer for each property. I also thought that I could do a bunch of inheritance stuff. For example, a brick type block would have a bump method which does the bump animation whilst a solid block would ignore attempted bumpage.

After I had programmed my classes like I usually do, something seemed kept bothering me. Then I realized that I needed do cast my new TBlockBrick (child to my regular TBlocks) into my Block array. Normally I keep things in Lists, which aren't typesafe (I think that's the term) in BMX. So, as soon as I put my bricks into the block array they lost the desirable bumpable ability I had given them. This does not happen to List which don't care what they point to.

Not sure what to do about this. I guess I need a not typesafe generic pointer thing for my Block[x,y] array. Beeh, programming sucks. I am sad puppy.


Had wet dreams about ToadFortress tonight.
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« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2010, 01:28:45 AM »

+1 wide-eyed follower of this.  Addicted

But I felt like pixeling a bit

I for one am glad you did, it looks awesomely awesome! Calling it "reducing yourself to pixelling" is nonsense, it is about style  Cool, and this has oodles of it.

Also, I liked the original blue too.

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Bones
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« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2010, 07:19:34 AM »

Why would you reduce yourself to pixels?

I've seen your art and its incredible.
And what exactly is wrong with pixel art?
I really would not like to have seen this game in anything other then pixel art honestly.
I've found that most NPA Mario games just aren't as exciting to me, sure he's got some nice photoshop renders and all that.
But this simple kick-back to the NES-like style could not be achieved with larger rendered units.

Either way, keep on trucking Arne, it's looking pretty fantastic.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2010, 09:05:28 AM »

Why would you reduce yourself to pixels?

I've seen your art and its incredible.
You don't know what you are talking about right? It does not reduce himself to pixel art, pixel art is harder and more thoughtful and ask for more skills to do it at its level. I guess most artist would have trouble creating a "perfect" 16 colors palettes simply because they are not skilled enough and would not know where to begin.
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« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2010, 10:35:46 AM »

Not sure what to do about this. I guess I need a not typesafe generic pointer thing for my Block[x,y] array. Beeh, programming sucks. I am sad puppy.

If by BMX you mean BlitzMax, I think I can help if I get what you are doing. Make the TBlock class an abstract class by declaring it like this

Code:
Type TBlock Abstract

  Method blabla()
    'This class will be shared and common among all blocks,
    'calling it will yield the same for all
  End Method

  Method onBump() Abstract
  'You will have to define this method for every child of TBlock
  'Notice: No "End Method"

End Type

When defining for example the brick block you go like this:

Code:
Type TBrickBlock Extends TBlock

  Method onBump()
    doThisAndThat()
  End Method

End Type


Now when you have your array of TBlocks and you bump on one of them you just call

Block[x,y].onBump()

and it will perform the block-specific action.

Hope I could help and I didn't make a fool out of myself by stating some obvious shit  Giggle
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« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2010, 11:26:12 AM »

Yes this sounds like the right way to do this (I also use Bmax.)

One slight gotcha with multi-dimensional arrays in Bmax is not being able to slice them - for that you'd want arrays of arrays.  Can always just rebuild the array with a larger size though...
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« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2010, 11:43:31 AM »

One slight gotcha with multi-dimensional arrays in Bmax is not being able to slice them - for that you'd want arrays of arrays.  Can always just rebuild the array with a larger size though...

Huh? Works for me... One random line of my code which compiles perfectly:

g.currentMap.tiles[3, myPosition.x, myPosition.y] = - 1

If that's what you meant... of course it is still arrays of arrays but my BMax translates my gibberish into the real deal.
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superflat
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« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2010, 12:18:53 PM »

Oh no I meant more like, if you wanna resize a map that's 10x10 to 11x10, with arrays 'o array, IIRC, you can do:

Code:
map=map[..11][..11]

But you can't do
 
Code:
map=map[..11,..11]

using multi-dimensional arrays.
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Inane
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« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2010, 12:40:34 PM »

You don't know what you are talking about right? It does not reduce himself to pixel art, pixel art is harder and more thoughtful and ask for more skills to do it at its level. I guess most artist would have trouble creating a "perfect" 16 colors palettes simply because they are not skilled enough and would not know where to begin.
This... what? Pixel art is no harder than digital painting, it all comes down to which one you're more comfortable with. There are certain aspects of pixel art that make it easier to use for games (easier animation, simplified transparency, etc), so uhh... yeah, what?
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real art looks like the mona lisa or a halo poster and is about being old or having your wife die and sometimes the level goes in reverse
gimymblert
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« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2010, 04:42:31 PM »

I would stress the more thoughtful part of that.

When you have less options, you need more thought to balance them. Having to choose between 16M colors can lead to more trial and error and intuition as a process, but when you made a definitive 16colors palette you need to choose precisely the set that will leave you some artistic flexibility while keeping basic graphical quality intact.

On the same level, pixel art can be done very simply, but when you want to break the limitation you need to put your knowledge into full effect. There was a thread on pixelation about star ocean gbc, which from a small set of tile could achieve amazing organic looking lay out with differing perspective. If you want to achieve a greater nuance of emotion, you can just "draw" it with traditional digital painting. With pixel art you need to think about how to achieve that nuance.

The true meaning of my post is that pixel art makes you more aware of the (forced you into) expressive power of graphical elements, since you manipulate directly. I have notice a loss of expressive quality in modern game from people who have been made game from a long time. Game like MOM and the final fantasy beyond 7 are clear example of that, their 16bits incarnation was better because they limitation made them more focused. New one are melodramatic mess. It's easy to get mire into the realm of possibility and forget efficiency (which takes more skills).

The fact that Arne can do both with ease is a sign he is a very good and talented artist.
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mokesmoe
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« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2010, 07:18:13 PM »

Normal art and pixel art is like speedruns and tas.
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« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2010, 09:47:34 PM »

Not going to step into this digital art x pixal art argument, I guess there are pros and cons for both.

This, though, must be reaffirmed:
Why would you reduce yourself to pixels?

I've seen your art and its incredible.
And what exactly is wrong with pixel art?
I really would not like to have seen this game in anything other then pixel art honestly.
I've found that most NPA Mario games just aren't as exciting to me, sure he's got some nice photoshop renders and all that.
But this simple kick-back to the NES-like style could not be achieved with larger rendered units.

Either way, keep on trucking Arne, it's looking pretty fantastic.
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Arne
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« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2010, 12:00:03 AM »

RotateMe > I was gonna call you fool, because that was the solution I already had attempted. But then I thought I should try it again, so I wrote a simple separate test program*, and it does indeed work like I hoped it would. So there must be something wrong in my yarn of code. I guess I'll just have to make another try and see if it works this time. Maybe I'm casting by mistake somewhere. I've confirmed that creation is proper, but right after they go into the map array they are casted or something it seems.

Also, I didn't know you could close a Method with Abstract like that.

(* the test which works)
Code:
SuperStrict

Global Map:TMother[10]

TMother.FBoot()
TMother.FListActive()

End

Type TMother Abstract
Field Name:String
Global ActiveList:TList

Function FBoot()
ActiveList = New TList
Local i:Int
Print "Creating ----------------"
For i = 0 To 9
If Rnd(1)<0.5 Then Map[i]= TDaughter.FCreate("Daughter") Else Map[i]= TSon.FCreate("Son")
Map[i].MHello()
Next
End Function

Function FCreate:TMother(s:String)
End Function

Function FListActive()
Local t:TMother
Print "Active ----------------"
For t = EachIn ActiveList
t.MHello()
Next
End Function

Method MHello()
End Method
End Type

Type TDaughter Extends TMother
Function FCreate:TDaughter(s:String)
Local t:TDaughter = New TDaughter
t.Name = s
ActiveList.AddLast t
Return t
End Function

Method MHello()
Print "TDaughter: " + Name
End Method
End Type

Type TSon Extends TMother
Function FCreate:TSon(s:String)
Local t:TSon = New TSon
t.Name = s
Return t
End Function

Method MHello()
Print "TSon: " + Name
End Method
End Type

Edit: Well, now it suddenly works in the game. It's confusing, but I'm not going to complain.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 12:27:11 AM by Arne » Logged
Melly
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« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2010, 12:52:39 AM »

Lets not hijack Arne's game thread and make it into a pixel-art merits discussion.

Looking amazing so far Arne. Keep going, make it happen!
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