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[PGGB]

If you're doing it only for pleasure then use anything you like yes. If you're doing it to build your life on (making a indie business and living from it), you'll have to make sure that you don't have too many doors closed that might be fatal to your projects.

When you finally have a great game in your hands which needs porting to consoles, you can still rewrite the game in C++. You probably saved already way more time by that point than porting it needs.

It's not like once you use GameMaker, you can never go back (see Spelunky).

[Klaim]

If you're doing it only for pleasure then use anything you like yes. If you're doing it to build your life on (making a indie business and living from it), you'll have to make sure that you don't have too many doors closed that might be fatal to your projects.

When you finally have a great game in your hands which needs porting to consoles, you can still rewrite the game in C++. You probably saved already way more time by that point than porting it needs.

It's not like once you use GameMaker, you can never go back (see Spelunky).

Well that's a possibility too. I think that depends on the complexity of the game. I know for example that the game I'm working on can't be done with flash or game maker. I could have prototyped it in Python, that's true. Now I'm more fluent in C++ than Python so I guess it was easier for me to go this way. Good point anyway.

I taught myself C++ one year ago (I was 16) with the goal of building games.

Needless to say, I never acually built anything remotely game-like using the thing.

With school and APs, learning how to do both code and design at once was too much.

Six months and many fruitless attempts later, I decided to settle for Game Maker- ultimately, it gets the job done.

Eventually I'll build a game using C++, but right now, I'm focusing on learning the design aspect. Doing your first game with C++ in a trial by fire is just fucking masochism.

I fully agree.

That's why you should know why you're making your game. For learning and pleasure, any language that you like is good. I personnally use C++ and Python even for simple prototypes but I'm fluent in C++, have a lot of years doing it. If I didn't made simple games when I was young using Basic and later Visual Basic, then I wouldn't have the taste of pleasure of making a game.

[Erick]

What will using Game Maker teach me? I've used RPG Maker XP in the past for that sort of thing. Wouldn't it be more worth while investing into learning a language than using Game Maker, or am I wrong?

Also, to get what I have in mind straightened out..

I want to learn how to make games to eventually be able to support a family on the income, hopefully more. I want to get out of bed, work on something for 4-6 hours a day, and then put it down and relax. Is this a realistic goal or will I be more spending 16 hours a day coding games and working on selling them to make enough to support myself alone?

Right now I'm 17 and still in High School, so I still have some time to think and plan out what my future is going to be like. I also have a part-time job to pay any bills I need and to buy some books/good tutorials here and there.

What I would like, but don't particularly care one way or the other, is to get a small business going doing coding with some staff. I know this is off the track of Indie game making, but whatever will pay the bills, etc.

[Netsu]

What will using Game Maker teach me? I've used RPG Maker XP in the past for that sort of thing. Wouldn't it be more worth while investing into learning a language than using Game Maker, or am I wrong?

Once again, start from Python + PyGame, it's not really that different from the 'professional' and 'advanced' stuff, but it is incredibly simple to learn with all the tutorials you can find on the web. It will teach you how to structure your game's code (making a framework) and what is animating, double-buffering, basic physics etc. all about. Once you feel comfortable with it, move on (to Java or C++ I guess).

[starsrift]

Making games is a great way to learn C++. I questioned a prof about this when I was in university - I said, "You've always got us making games". He took my comment seriously, and responded, "What other application demands so much skill from the programmer? You have to do everything from database management and object typing to processing to UI." Get a game done first - sounds like you've done that with your die-rolling prompt thing? Then add graphics. I'd recommend SDL, there's lots of tutorials on how to use that library. I wouldn't recommend DirectX unless you have a lot of C++ under your belt, it's possibly the most labyrinthian library set out there at the moment - which doesn't mean it's not useful and powerful, just, that it, like windows, is an ugly mix of old and new. Gamedev.net has lots of good tutorials for various aspects of C++ coding.

I want to get out of bed, work on something for 4-6 hours a day, and then put it down and relax. Is this a realistic goal or will I be more spending 16 hours a day coding games and working on selling them to make enough to support myself alone?

Are you serious? 4-6 hrs, fully self-sufficient?
 Good luck.

That said, it's more about what you make, then how long you spend making it. Just ask the guy who did I MAED A GAEM WITH ZOMBIES IN IT!!!! Generally, though, the work you put into something is going to be reflected in the final product. If you halfass everything, it'll show.

[deathtotheweird]

I want to learn how to make games to eventually be able to support a family on the income, hopefully more. I want to get out of bed, work on something for 4-6 hours a day, and then put it down and relax. Is this a realistic goal or will I be more spending 16 hours a day coding games and working on selling them to make enough to support myself alone?

Just spend a couple more days on these forums and reading the various blogs. It seems like your 16 hour a day scenario is much much more likely than your 4-6 hours a day scenario.

The people that do succeed (people like notch) are few and far between. Success is a bit of an anomaly in the indie world. Don't count on it. I can almost guarantee it isn't going to happen to you. If you want a nice stable job, the worst thing to do is thinking being a full time indie developer will be that job.

[Skofo]

Entrepreneurs in general usually have to spend a lot more time on their work than they would in a regular job. They do it because it is personally satisfying for them, not because it is less work.

[Erick]

I can almost guarantee it isn't going to happen to you.

That's a pretty bold statement. We all start somewhere.


So I checked out Python, it seems good. I made a "game", which is just a spinning image on the screen that reacts to key presses.

I would like to get more into Flash but it seems that there are so many tools to make flash games and I can't seem to find any that are good and that I can use CS5 with along side the tutorials.

I already know what being an Entrepreneur is like. I own a computer repair business which I run under a sole proprietorship. That alone, when the business is coming in good, makes me a pretty good share of money. I know about registering business names, working with lawyers if I want to incorporate and getting the proper permits and variances. Don't take me for a moron, I can be very witty and determined if I have the right resources.

[Geti]

Why bother with CS5 for making flash games? Grab a library (I use Flixel personally, flashpunk is also pretty cool) Write the source in any good text editor with syntax highlighting (or if you're on windows like a crazy person, get flashdevelop, which is apparently a really good IDE for AS3) and compile with flex. I tried going the adobe IDE route at one point but it's easier to treat it like a standard coding project than some sort of crazy timeline oriented whatever for me.

Only issue I have with AS3 is the lack of warnings from missing semicolons, but that's down to my lazy proof-reading.

There's a shitload of information here on making flash games, and sections for flixel and flashpunk each.



If you're only interested in design at this point, Lua is an easy language to pick up, and Love is a cool framework for prototyping ideas. Similar vein to python I suppose, but afaik Lua is easier to integrate as a scripting language for AI and whatnot, but don't quote me on that. I know crysis used it for AI behaviours. Love uses it for coding everything, and it takes care of all your drawing and sound implementation (and there's even a network lib out there I think). You can't really make money easily of love games though, as Lua is interpreted you're giving your source to all your players, which isn't an issue if you're going the FOSS route, but is if you're trying to make coin. If you're just learning the ropes though, prototyping is a great place to start.

[Erick]

Why bother with CS5 for making flash games? Grab a library (I use Flixel personally, flashpunk is also pretty cool) Write the source in any good text editor with syntax highlighting (or if you're on windows like a crazy person, get flashdevelop, which is apparently a really good IDE for AS3) and compile with flex. I tried going the adobe IDE route at one point but it's easier to treat it like a standard coding project than some sort of crazy timeline oriented whatever for me.

Only issue I have with AS3 is the lack of warnings from missing semicolons, but that's down to my lazy proof-reading.

There's a shitload of information here on making flash games, and sections for flixel and flashpunk each.



If you're only interested in design at this point, Lua is an easy language to pick up, and Love is a cool framework for prototyping ideas. Similar vein to python I suppose, but afaik Lua is easier to integrate as a scripting language for AI and whatnot, but don't quote me on that. I know crysis used it for AI behaviours. Love uses it for coding everything, and it takes care of all your drawing and sound implementation (and there's even a network lib out there I think). You can't really make money easily of love games though, as Lua is interpreted you're giving your source to all your players, which isn't an issue if you're going the FOSS route, but is if you're trying to make coin. If you're just learning the ropes though, prototyping is a great place to start.

I am not on Windows, but starting to think I'm crazy for not being! It seems 99% of tutorials have 101 steps for Windows users to get stuff set up, and it's almost faster to set the stuff up than to scroll down until I find the useful info.

[Geti]

Very true, the good thing about flash being (mostly) cross-platform is that only some of the information you find says "now do this win32-centric task and open C:\path\to\thing\ and" blah blah, instead of all of it. FlashGameDojo is great in that it's got separate tutorials for getting everything set up, and the rest of the articles are a lot more code-centric, so your environment is relatively unimportant.

[Netsu]

I already know what being an Entrepreneur is like. I own a computer repair business which I run under a sole proprietorship. That alone, when the business is coming in good, makes me a pretty good share of money. I know about registering business names, working with lawyers if I want to incorporate and getting the proper permits and variances. Don't take me for a moron, I can be very witty and determined if I have the right resources.

It's not just about running your own business, getting enough profit to support a family out of games is just HARD. As far as I know (and I don't know much), most people that do this, are making ends meet by producing a shitload of little flash games that go on sites like Facebook, and/or making games for mobile devices (mainly IPhone I guess). If that's how you see your future, then all right, but I don't think 4-6 hours a day would be enough for this.