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[namre]

Do you guys know EpicWin? It's a really cool app from the AppStore that mixes RPG elements with your to do list. To those unfamiliar with it, go here.

Now, the guys behind EpicWin currently have no plans of porting their app to the Android, which is, of course a much requested feature by non-iPhone users.

Since I am currently dabbling myself into Android development, my friends suggested that I make something similar to EpicWin myself. I too thought that it was a good idea. However, after thinking it through, I somehow got afraid that I might be branded as a rip-off.

Of course, I am not planning to copy everything. Just the concept of it, which is mixing RPG elements with a to-do list, and create my own art for it, etc. But even with such measures, I still foresee people saying "rip-off!" if ever I am to finish it. You see, the entire concept IS EpicWin itself. Even if you change a couple of stuff, the main concept is still something EpicWin came up with.

The reason for my fear would be because of Zynga's newly attained image. I bet everyone knows that it is their business model to rip-off other games that are slowly gaining popularity and eventually, muscle them off the competition through sheer marketing strength. This is a practice that is frowned upon by people, which also gave Zynga their negative image. Being a new developer, I don't want to have this kind of image as I am sure it would destroy my future career.

So, my question is: Even with such a predicament, should I still continue with my plan? Or am I better off creating something different?

I really want to know what other people think.

Thank you!

[kyn]

As I see it, you should ask permission from the EpicWin guys, if permission is granted feel free to do so. But still give credit where it's due.

[r.kachowski]

just go for it. as long as you make an effort to do something different, you shouldn't feel bad about basing an idea off of someone elses. Zynga are pretty horrible and almost seem to pride themselves on being unscrupulous - as long as you keep some dignity I wouldn't worry about being compared to them

Checkout cactus' igf talk from last year. make EpicWin with tits!

[starsrift]

Yeah, if you were concerned about it, I'd ask them about it.

Keep in mind too, that much of gaming, both AAA and "social network" and everything else are "me too" games. It's how genres get started. As long as you're not a ripoff, but your own stuff, I wouldn't worry.

[gimymblert]

Epic win is not the sole game like this, Chore war. Some people says Epic win is a rip off of the former, and the idea was floating in the air for quite long, i'm not sure chore wars is actually the first.
So you are afraid of ripping off a rip off to say thing bluntly


http://www.chorewars.com/

[namre]

@neoshaman, oh, I didn't know that! Haha. Nevertheless, let's say, for argument's sake that EpicWin's idea is original. What do you think should I do?

@starsrift, yeah. I agree. The endless copying of successful games spawns the genre. One that comes to mind is Defense of the Ancients spawning a new line of Genre followed by League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth.

@r.kachowski, true. I guess I have no choice but to infuse more of my personality and make it different as much as possible even if there's not much room to expand on.

@kYn, I have thought of that. Although, I doubt that by asking them they would give me permission as I would be a potential competitor. Then again, I don't think they have the rights to claim that the idea is theirs and theirs alone.

Thanks for all your replies. Keep em coming!

[Tumetsu]

As already pointed out, genres have born this way so inherently I think it's not wrong. Actually, when you look many mainstream games, one could argue they are rip-offs of some older game.

So what I would recommend is to do the game and add some unique twist or at least own personaloty and feel for it. I think that separates a rip-off and "sophisticated clone" (couldn't invent better expression lol :D)

[gimymblert]

Bandwagon into the genre with improvement/twist. Pay homage to the elder. Learn from their mistakes. Evangelize the genre. Rest on the seven day.

It's not like you are ripping off a character and a plot word by word.

[jrjellybeans]

Yeah, just go for it!

If the idea has already been done twice, then the idea's already been ripped off.

Plus, the majority of games in existence are rip offs of another game...

[Taiko]

You could ask them if it's alright for you to develop it on the Android for them.  Not copy the idea for your own game, but make a port for them.  You never know, they might be up for it.

[The Monster King]

if every platformer had to say they were inspired by mario

as long as youre not copy/paste youre just making a game in the same genre

[mankoon]

I've only heard of Epic Win. I dont think you should go into it thinking you'll just make Epic win but slap new art on it. Why not build off of what Epic Win created and make something even better? Push the culture of Rpg themed todo list to it's limits!

[bvanevery]

Being a new developer, I don't want to have this kind of image as I am sure it would destroy my future career.

How could you possibly be certain of that?  Particularly if you're a new developer, what do you know?  Someone's obviously making money doing exactly what you're afraid of, so why can't that be your career too?  You'll need a better reason to avoid doing this than "oh, it would be career suicide."  That's an excuse.   What's really bugging you about this?

You sound like someone trying to talk himself out of making porn.

[namre]

You'll need a better reason to avoid doing this than "oh, it would be career suicide."  That's an excuse.   What's really bugging you about this?

As odd to you as it may sound, I have no other excuse aside from that. I am a person who just values what other people think of me.

Why? Let's just say I had a bad experience with having a bad image on the internet before on a different endeavor and never got a chance to recover. I just don't want that same thing to happen again and ruin a career that I've been wanting to have ever since I was a kid.

Why not build off of what Epic Win created and make something even better? Push the culture of Rpg themed todo list to it's limits!

True. I was naive to think that there's no more to improve upon their current concept.

You could ask them if it's alright for you to develop it on the Android for them.  Not copy the idea for your own game, but make a port for them.  

They've just recently announced their plans for the Android platform. No word yet on what it exactly is. I'm guessing they already have a port ready. Hehe.

Again, thanks for your replies!

[bvanevery]

Why? Let's just say I had a bad experience with having a bad image on the internet before on a different endeavor and never got a chance to recover. I just don't want that same thing to happen again and ruin a career that I've been wanting to have ever since I was a kid.

Eh, technology turns over pretty quickly.  Can't be more than a few years before everyone's on to something else.  So, any major faux pas in some online community quickly becomes ancient history.  The internet is pretty big.  Also, if you want a bad experience, try bankruptcy if you haven't already.  If you've survived one of those, you take a lot of things less seriously.  You may not want another bankruptcy, but once you've been through the wringer and realize you can actually survive, you don't have nearly as many perceived fears about life in general.  Including what other people think of you.

[namre]

Sigh. I don't really want to argue so I'll just leave it at that.

[gimymblert]

And in the industry COPY is the desired skill, it show you have the analytical skills to take a game and understand how it works. And that's just what the industry does, COPY ... Heck I was at a conference where a developer said he was not seeking creative people, but people that can copy other games. Business men in the industry back up people that can copy any other game that have success. Being successful is a better indicator of career than CREATIVITY. This one is left to poor indie and artist. Actually branding yourself as solely a creative person is what kills your career. Copy is much more tangible.

So what do you want, to copy or to create? It will lead your career to widely different path.
 

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Eh, technology turns over pretty quickly.  Can't be more than a few years before everyone's on to something else.  So, any major faux pas in some online community quickly becomes ancient history.

that isn't true at all. i still remember your stupid posts on the indiegamer.com message board in 2004 or earlier, and still hold that against you, and i'm sure i'm not alone. people's reputation matters online, even long-term.

similarly, people are not about to forget tim langdell's behavior, or adam coate's, even 10 years from now.

as for the topic itself, i'd say it's a bad idea unless you're going to add something that's a significant improvement over the original. which shouldn't be all that hard to do, since it's such a new genre.

[bvanevery]

Eh, technology turns over pretty quickly.  Can't be more than a few years before everyone's on to something else.  So, any major faux pas in some online community quickly becomes ancient history.

that isn't true at all. i still remember your stupid posts on the indiegamer.com message board in 2004 or earlier, and still hold that against you, and i'm sure i'm not alone. people's reputation matters online, even long-term.

So what?  If you've got the emotional energy to hold onto things from 6 years ago, when I don't have any memory of even speaking to you, that's your problem not mine.  There's always some outlier who holds a grudge about something for years and years and years, who loves to nurse it for some reason.

As for indiegamer.com in general, they're not making me any money, so why should I care about them?  I mean geez, at one level this thread is about careers, haven't you ever moved on from a work situation you didn't like?  Left some irritating associates behind that you don't care to ever work with again?  If you haven't then you're either rather lucky, rather easygoing, or not very old.  People move on from jobs, where you know, they're like paid, lots of money.  People fret about it a lot, they consider it a major life decision, it often embodies deep unhappiness, but frankly people do it and move on.  What hold does some random internet forum have over you?  Sweating about it over the long haul is pretty silly.  That's actually one of the problems of open source communities and the like, their exaggerated sense of self-importance.  When there's money on the table, people are a lot more polite, because they're more interested in the money than the drama.

similarly, people are not about to forget tim langdell's behavior,

Tim Langdell is actually proof of just how much someone can get away with!  If people have to do that much to suffer any kind of consequence, the rest of us mere mortals should hardly worry about giving offense here and there.  Man I wonder how you'd do in business or politics, sounds like you couldn't hang.  There's rougher worlds out there than indie developer forums.

or adam coate's, even 10 years from now.

Adam Coate?  What's your beef with him, that he promoted his Flytrap game?  That's a rhetorical question, as I don't care.  I've interacted by private chat with him plenty of times, and I'd go so far as to call him a chat penpal.  If that lowers anyone's opinion of me then hey fine, bring it on.  I don't respect "bandwagon" people who can't judge a person 1 on 1; the man's never given me any problem.

TIGSource didn't even exist 10 years ago.  Something else will exist 10 years from now.  That's the "inflated sense of importance" problem again.  People sitting around yelling about how much they don't like someone are just people with too much time on their hands.  Life either changes that for them, i.e. they get forced to spend their time on something of real consequence, or life doesn't change it and they persist in their irrelevance indefinitely.  

[s0]

People sitting around yelling about how much they don't like someone or something are just people with too much time on their hands.  Life either changes that for them, i.e. they get forced to spend their time on something of real consequence, or life doesn't change it and they persist in their irrelevance indefinitely.  

Quoted for truth, bro.