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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralsex drugs and videogames.
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fish
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« on: March 31, 2007, 11:37:33 AM »

ok, sex is optional.
optional but always nice.

so lets talk about drugs and games.

i've always been a fan of using light drugs in the brainstorming process.
marijuana (my weapon of choice) alter my thought patern and makes me come up with ideas, mechanics, designs and visuals that i would have never came up with otherwise.
if by the next morning i still think the idea is good. it worked.

im sure a LOT of people use "design aids" all over the industry, but for some reason, its taboo. moreso than in other mediums. would we have ever had white light white heat if it wasnt for heroin? would we ever had mario and katamri if it wasnt for mushrooms?

well we dont know. because the people who made those game smight never talk about their drug use. but come ON. all mushrooms all the time everywhere. coincidence? there is no coincidence?

why is it so taboo?
why cant mizuguchi just come out and say "i was high on E at a rave when i came up with the idea for REZ" why.

i remember when katamri first came out reading a review on IGN that says that the game was a LOT of fun to play while drunk. yeah right. drunk. the trippy visuals, the trippy music, the trippy concept, thats for when you're drunk.
drunk people LOVE things that spin around a lot.

the IGN reviewer couldnt just come out and say he played it high and was fucking blown away. i can understand why, IGN and all. but still.


so yeah, drugs and games.
discuss.

who does it?
why?
with what?
no? why not?

lets not turn this into a "are drugs okay" discussion, please.
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Derek
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2007, 12:04:05 PM »









This game's called LSD, but it's supposed to be about dreams. Roll Eyes

(Source: SB)

But I've never found drugs to aid my creative thinking, sadly.  So I game design sober. Sad

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Caio
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2007, 12:06:00 PM »

fish, you know, mushrooms are not drugs, and most aren't even hallucinogens. Roll Eyes
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Xion
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2007, 09:38:54 PM »

I'd be more impressed by a good trippy game made when the person wasn't high than a good trippy game made when a person was. I mean, if someone's high then trippy is expected, but if someone's not that's sheer creativity (or insanity) shining, unaided.
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ptoing
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2007, 09:46:36 PM »

I dunno, I often get the comment that my drawings and stuff looks like I take drugs, I don't. Some friends also told me I sometimes seem to be "stoned by nature"  :D Undecided
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« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2007, 10:11:24 PM »

During my time in Amsterdam, I did partake in the notable legality (no, not whoring).

I can't say it helped me a lot creatively. I've already trained myself to leap deftly between neurons, and marijuana makes that jumping so hyperactive that I can't remember how I got from A to B in the first place. It also brings with it the endorphin rush released from creative thinking. Ever had an idea (stoned or not) which you thought was incredibly fantastic, only to return to it later on, and realize that it's unworkable, blue sky garbage? That's what most of the stoner ideas I had were like. It's what most of the stoner ideas I heard from others were like, too.

I find hash just gives you the impression you're being creative, when infact, your neural connections are just being liquified, and you're traversing your neural network at breakneck speed, refusing to latch on to any anchor point. You thought process is more like an express train than a spider, weaving a web.

If you come up with something useful, it's more to do with the law of averages than increased creativity. Throw enough shit at a wall, and some of it is bound to stick. And when you're stoned, you're throwing a metric tonne of shit at the wall.

There are far better methods of improving the quality of your creativity (if not the quantity). I can recommend some Edward de Bono books. I also think it's important to be widely read - look outside the narrow cultural boundaries that most games enthusiasts inhabit. No more tolkien, or marvel, or aliens. Watch some dogma films, read some classics, or go for a nice walk in the countryside. If your inspirations come from alternate sources than your peers, you'll look more creative simply by comparison. Look at Michel Gondry - while everyone around him is trying to figure out how to use CGI, he's trying to perfect chintzy forgotten techniques, and as a result, he's marvellously different.

I should say that I'm not against drug use in general. Each to their own, and hopefully, you won't let them take over your life. Hash didn't really do much for me, and it made the people around me fairly boring (and when they started pitching me ideas they got when they were high, it was frankly frightening).
« Last Edit: April 03, 2007, 05:09:20 PM by Bezzy » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2007, 11:54:26 PM »

Drugs are drugs. Some people are more creative with them, some are not. The end product is all that matters. If you or your audience finds your product is more interesting while under the influence, then go ahead. I know a lot of games that I would much rather play under the influence of drugs or alcohol (Rez and Warioware come to mind immediately). I also know a lot of games that I would rather not. It's all a matter of context.

I guess for the generalization it goes as such: the easiest thing to do while UI is probably conceptual designs. Depending on your toxin of choice and your current state of mind, you can come up with some pretty great ideas. The problem comes when you have to do something more technical. I would never program wasted. And I would never program even while even buzzing. It's just easier that way.

This isn't to say that it's better to be high while you make games. Though it is definitely saying not to rule it out. Many, many great artists throughout time used different substances ranging from absinthe to cocaine to cigarettes. You know what games benefit from drug use. And you know what games don't.
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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2007, 12:32:02 AM »

I dunno, I often get the comment that my drawings and stuff looks like I take drugs, I don't. Some friends also told me I sometimes seem to be "stoned by nature"  :D Undecided
That's... Pretty similar to me. Sadly, though, the only thing people ever say my drawings look like are "That Japanese anime thing" and "Tim Burton-ish". Sad
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real art looks like the mona lisa or a halo poster and is about being old or having your wife die and sometimes the level goes in reverse
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2007, 12:55:30 AM »

I... er, well from past experience I will say that it can help you with playtesting, finding out whether something is fun or not and also approximating the sort of impression that somebody else may have when they see your game for the first time. That is to say, it can briefly strip away that jaded, tired view of your own work that you can end up with after working on something for a long time. It's also fun for playing other people's games.

But for actually getting work done... nah. I don't think it helps with your creativity at all, and it certainly does nothing for organised thinking. But it can help replenish your enthusiasm.
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2007, 07:34:22 PM »

I dunno, I often get the comment that my drawings and stuff looks like I take drugs, I don't. Some friends also told me I sometimes seem to be "stoned by nature"  :D Undecided
Yeah, I get that too. Sometimes I'm just out of it and people are like "are you high?" And when I twitch (which I often do) or draw something weird people are like "are you sure you've never done drugs?"
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« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2007, 02:17:50 PM »

No drugs, just tea. And more tea... and more...

Quote from: Bezzy
There are far better methods of improving the quality of your creativity (if not the quantity). I can recommend some Edward de Bono books. I also think it's important to be widely read - look outside the narrow cultural boundaries that most games enthusiasts inhabit. No more tolkien, or marvel, or aliens. Watch some dogma films, read some classics, or go for a nice walk in the countryside. If your inspirations come from alternate sources than your peers, you'll look more creative simply by comparison. Look at Michel Gondry - while everyone around him is trying to figure out how to use CGI, he's trying to perfect chintzy forgotten techniques, and as a result, he's marvellously different.

Can't agree more. All AAA games do lately is operating on worn-out cliches. Really sometimes I think that most game designers might be smart people, but extremally narrow-minded.
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Tom Grochowiak
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« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2007, 02:40:52 PM »

I think it was William Gibson who said (and I may not get this exactly right): "The funny thing about creativity and drugs is you think it is because of the drugs, but it is actually in spite of them."  Ironically, he is one of the few people who definitely did their best work while on all sorts of various substances...the dude from Stone Temple Pilots would be another one.

I can't understand how altering my mind would profit me any.  I've worked really, really hard to get my mind where it is (sad, right?).  The idea of popping a pill and suddenly becoming wildly creative seems very artificial and psychosomatic; like you're looking for both an excuse to get high out of normal self-destructive tendencies and to try out ideas that may be too "out there" for your normal sensibilities.  Like getting high for the sake of creativity makes it a nobler pursuit or something?  I'm not gonna judge anybody's habits, but usually if you feel a need to justify your habits it means you have some misgivings about them yourself (like workaholism Tongue )...
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« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2007, 05:04:40 PM »

I tend to do all my best work in a state of semi-consciousness, somewhere in between lucidity and complete disconnect. I call it sleep deprivation.

seriously tho, it never ceases to amaze me how much more productive and efficient I am on a full night of sleep or over a weekend. The thought of purposely inducing myself into an altered state is just about the last thing I'd want to subject myself to in terms of getting anything done. But if it works for some, hey, more power to you just don't kill yourselves.
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« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2007, 06:46:38 PM »

I once read this: "People on drugs think they are creative. To everyone else, they seem like people on drugs" and I have to agree.
 
Suda51 says he's not a drug user  Roll Eyes LOL If that's true then it proves you don't need' em to get fucking wacky.  Cool
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« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2007, 07:31:31 PM »

No one actually does work under the influence.
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« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2007, 10:52:17 PM »

It would be just plain silly to program on drugs. It's nice to think that games are art and there aren't many differences between making them and other creative activities (let's say painting), but remember that we have to code our works. Which means precise, logical, patience requiring work - altered psychical states are out of question.

Same goes for working while almost asleep. It happens to me sometimes (due to the lack of time, not choice) and I know that, while my mind is generally quite creative during this periods, I'll have to spend another day ironing out the bugs/mistakes I've made. 
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Tom Grochowiak
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« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2007, 12:35:42 AM »

Quote
"People on drugs think they are creative. To everyone else, they seem like people on drugs"

I'd say that's absolutely true, but don't underestimate the value of thinking you are creative. That's probably the biggest barrier of all; you need to become confident and enthusiastic and believe in the quality of your work before it will even start to become good.
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fish
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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2007, 05:37:53 AM »

suda 51 is a joke.
his GDC talk was one of the most infuriating thing ive ever seen.

anyway.

i guess its not for all.
but i wish more people had an open mind about light drug use.
im not talking about jabbing a needle in your eyeball and shoot some heroin in there. but the lighter stuff can still have very interesting effects.

and im not a coder.
i dont code. i dont know the first thing about code.
its my biggest handicap. but lucky me, i hang out with a lot of coders.
coders who cant draw shit.
i can draw.
i do design and art.
so im either sitting around, thinking up stuff, writting down the good bits, working in photoshop, making some art.

in those cases, a bit of THC works wonders.

but i agree with lowpoly. back in school id do 32 hour shifts.
by the end i was just plain batshit, but working hard and working good.
but screaming a lot and mumbling to myself.
but it worked.
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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2007, 06:01:34 AM »

I've known artists to use a bit of weed to get the juices flowing, sure. I've known a coder who was basically addicted to it and lost his job as a result. I've known a coder who kept it out of work, went on ecstasy binges at squat parties and more than held down his job. I think it's been said, it just depends on who you are. Some people couldn't function if even slightly stoned. I doubt anyone could really code after a spliff or two. Art, sure. Ideas, maybe. Code, nonono.
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« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2007, 06:26:20 AM »

I actually met an old demoscener who used to smoke A LOT of weed, and at some point he wanted to get back into coding. And the coding actually helped him to stop smoking so much, because he had the willpower to want to code and put that before his smoking habits :D
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