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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralsex drugs and videogames.
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ravuya
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« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2007, 07:57:37 AM »

Man, I can barely code with a few beers in me; a narcotic would just drop my ability to focus period.

A lot of guys in my college classes used to take dexedrine, which was a lot of fun when I'd find them passed out in the elevator shortly afterward.
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« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2007, 04:00:11 PM »

At the age of 10 I spent just over a year living at a drug and alcohol rehabilitation facility.
The people I saw there, and the way drugs had destroyed them has made me extremely sceptical of "light" drug (ab)use. (I mean, if you are using drugs without a legitimate medical reason you are not using the drug the way it was designed: abuse).

Not one of the people I met there started out on heroin. Almost all of them started with weed or alcohol.

Of the people I met there, a 3 have suicided, 1 has been murdered and a bunch of them are now in prison... And that all started with light drugs.

Now I'm not trying to preach, but my view is my view. I've known a lot of people who seemed to be able to handle the drugs they were abusing...

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

-Mike

ps: I don't want to give the wrong impression; I wasn't a addicted to heroin or anything when I was 10. I just lived at the facility with my family who were involved in the program.
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« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2007, 04:31:52 PM »

it always depend on the person.
some people go out of hands, others have control.

they dont call marijuana a "recreational drug" for no reason.
it can be taken just for the fun of it.
some enjoy it.

others will get addicted and quickly go up the ladder.
same thing with alchool. how many people do you know who can have a few beers without being crazydangerous boozehounds? and alchool is a drug too. one that apparently does more harm to the body and mind than pot according to recent studies. or not. still, it all depends or the person. for having tried other susbstances and  not liking them, i can tell that i dont want to go up another notch.

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Anthony Flack
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« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2007, 04:35:11 PM »

Well, I think that if your experience is from a rehab facility, then that is probably going to skew your perceptions away from the normal reality somewhat. It's hardly a representative sample of the population.
Quote
(I mean, if you are using drugs without a legitimate medical reason you are not using the drug the way it was designed: abuse)
Well, there are plenty of drugs around that weren't designed, but simply exist naturally. And since our brains keep running on a cocktail of drugs all the time anyway, it's never so cut and dried as that.

Now, excuse me while I get my coffee. I freely admit to abusing that drug in the mornings.
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« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2007, 11:23:06 PM »

ultimately, the problem is less about actual drug use and more about addictive behavior. You can replace drugs with anything: gambling, sex, gaming, making popsicle stick houses... Once a habit begins to negatively effect your perception, health, and relationships, it can eventually become just as bad as shooting up heroin.
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AdamAtomic
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« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2007, 07:22:56 AM »

well people with addictive tendencies are definitely more likely to get hooked, but drugs are a little different in that they CAN have that effect on people that don't have innate addictive tendencies.  They directly alter your brain chemistry; this is the reason that light drug use is a concern.  Not because of its actual, immediate effects but because the occasional use can and will change the way your brain works, usually in a way that eventually compels you to work more drugs into your schedule, which can obviously have a snowball effect.  Some drugs have this effect more than others - there are many casual drinkers out there, but not so many casual smokers, etc.

There certainly ARE exceptions - e.g. my uncle smokes 2 cigarettes a day, and has for like a decade.  Just 2.  However, he also has more willpower than almost anyone I've ever met.
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« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2007, 09:38:40 AM »

Ok, you guys are getting way out of hand. It is completely fine if you don't want to participate in drug use. I was that way for a while, I still have friends that way, and, in fact, I have a few friends that have reverted back to that way. But I don't let any of them get away with knowing incorrect facts about drug use.

First off: If it weren't for FDA regulations and legal tape, a ton of things you consume everyday are drugs, too. They're merely things that are not purely food. So while the caffeine in your coffee isn't a drug, so is that yellow nine, or that special tea your girlfriend got you. And just in case you don't know, alcohol is a drug. It's all a matter of scale of effect. Anyone who tells you otherwise works for someone or something with economic interests. That alcohol is regulated different than drugs is the first clue that US legal definitions are no good when it comes to "things that fuck you up".

Second off: not all drugs are addictive (this is what made me want to make this post). Cigarettes have chemicals inside to aid its addictive properties, but for the most part, addiction comes on its own. It's a simple case of classical conditioning overriding other basic needs. If person X is provided input Y which has a pleasant effect , then X will look for Y when he wants something pleasant.

Now, I'm not a fan of telling people what to do when I am not in that same person's position. It's a problem of inexperience, you know? It's something, though, that I think a lot of people here are doing. So please, if you don't use drugs, please leave the conversation as it is. You can talk about how drugs affect you from other sources (e.g. you feel uncomfortable around drinkers/smokers, or you like picking up drunk girls at bars), but don't pretend like you know firsthand.
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« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2007, 09:42:58 AM »

YEAH.
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AdamAtomic
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« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2007, 09:51:32 AM »

i dont think anyone here is arguing that illegal drugs are any worse than legal ones, and for the record the only caffeine i get is through the occasional hershey bar.  however, claiming that only people that have actually taken drugs can possibly understand their effects seems a little silly to me.  I can see its effects on my family just fine, thanks.  I don't need to actually be in a car crash to know that i shouldn't speed on wet, curvy roads at night.
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« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2007, 10:34:30 AM »

How many people get into car accidents to have fun?

There are proven examples of great people who have used drugs to the benefit of their craft. Altering the mind's state is no big deal. What is a big deal is the bottom line: can you use drugs in a safe and responsible manner? Is your answer honest and sincere?

It's fine for you to mask the story of drugs on your life. I wouldn't want to pry on your personal life. But as I said, your experience is just one of many. Making a conclusion about it for yourself is your own decision, but be honest with us about it. Anecdotes don't make facts. Undecided
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AdamAtomic
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« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2007, 11:37:03 AM »

My apologies - it was not my intention to judge other people's hobbies or habits, and I am definitely not one to tell people that their experiences are invalid or somehow not as real as other people's.  I've just very rarely seen light (but regular) drug use remain that way, and I've never personally witnessed any constructive effects from it (some positive, but no constructive).  These experiences color my views obviously.  I think that it does not work for most people, but if it really works for you, i say great!  just be careful so i have more sweet indy games to play Smiley
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« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2007, 08:40:41 PM »

I think it's worth noting that, whenever you are feeling tired or happy or angry or just normal, or any other mental state, then that is the effects of drugs on your brain as well. All of us have to maintain the right chemical balance that helps us work.

Nobody can really be "drug free", because our bodies manufacture all sorts of drugs all the time, and everything we do affects the balance of different drugs in our brains.
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« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2007, 08:49:48 PM »

Not many people would consider the chemicals manufactured by the body drugs because it comes from within the body. The distinction that drugs are agents that affect body chemistry coming from outside of the body helps us talk about drug use.

@ Adam, no need to apologize. Drugs happen. Sometimes they don't happen the right way. It's unfortunate, but it happens.
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Anthony Flack
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« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2007, 11:49:32 PM »

Yes, but I guess the point I was trying to make is that there are so many things that we do that can drastically affect the various drug levels inside our bodies without actually consuming drugs, and that these affect our productivity just as much (in fact they may even be the same drugs). And, I guess, I partly wanted to get away from the demonising of "drug use" since we are constantly awash with various drugs that out own bodies manufacture (and, perhaps self-administer in inappropriate dosages in some cases). So some people need to take medication just to function normally, etc.

That's only tangentally related to the discussion at hand; granted. But we so often hear about people coming down on "drugs", when it's such nonsense. Which drugs? We survive on drugs. If you think people taking heroin is bad, then that's fine; say that. But being "anti-drugs" right across the board really makes very little sense. 

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« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2007, 09:11:31 AM »

I think nobody should post in this thread if they aren't high. If you aren't under drugs then obviously you shouldn't talk.
So please, if you didn't take anything, please leave the conversation as it is.

Also check your shoe-tap, with have a serious case of leakage in this area.
it's leaking and my pancake is swelling. The walls aren't happy with that.
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« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2007, 10:06:00 AM »

I'm not trying to be condescending to anyone. I am just pointing out which opinions have more ground than others. I'd trust someone's experienced opinion over someone's second, third, or even fourth hand opinion. It's a matter of respecting the truth of the source.

It'd be like me telling other people about games I've never played, or someone who's never played videogames telling other people about the violence content. If you really want to look at the heart of the matter, go to any art school and see how many kids take drugs. If you're never going to partake, at least go to the source and find out directly. Survey more than just yourself.
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Xion
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« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2007, 04:39:44 PM »

I'm not trying to be condescending to anyone. I am just pointing out which opinions have more ground than others. I'd trust someone's experienced opinion over someone's second, third, or even fourth hand opinion. It's a matter of respecting the truth of the source.
So you'd be more believing of a drug-user who says drugs are fine than his best friend who's never done drugs but says "drugs fucking ruin your life" because he sees it happening to his pal over there who's blind to the fact, thinks everything is fine, his grades are in the gutter, his visual-spatial skills are declining, his family rejecting him? You'd believe the drug-user because he's the one actually doing drugs?
In general, you don't need to do something to see it's effects. You don't need to start a fire to know that wood burns or take LSD to know it makes people trip. You might not know what they trip, but that doesn't mean you don't know that they were scaring you when they were.
Albeit, that same mentality doesn't apply to many things, like your example of videogames, or the feeling of killing someone, but really, you're not likely to get truth out of anyone, because the people that regularly do drugs will be biased towards it, and the people that never do drugs will be biased against.
Generally speaking, that is.

I'm pretty sure most of the kids in my school have done or are on drugs (or at least a third). Sure, they're cool people. I've hung out with a few. but it's just...I can tell when they're high during class and lunch and that's just not a state I can understand anybody wanting to be in.

Gah.

I think I'll just leave this thread like moi suggested. I really don't belong here.
Cya.

(I was so tempted to just delete everything I just said and keep perusing the forums. But I just wanna see whatcha' gonna say.)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 04:42:41 PM by Xion » Logged

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« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2007, 05:19:34 PM »

I think it's worth noting that, whenever you are feeling tired or happy or angry or just normal, or any other mental state, then that is the effects of drugs on your brain as well. All of us have to maintain the right chemical balance that helps us work.

Nobody can really be "drug free", because our bodies manufacture all sorts of drugs all the time, and everything we do affects the balance of different drugs in our brains.

I hate to sound like an ass, but this whole statement is very ignorant.

There's a difference between just "natural drugs" and "naturally created within humans". You change a state of mind because your body does NOT accept the change when taking drugs or alcohol.

EDIT: You don't need fucking drugs to be able to think of something that doesn't look like reality, dammit.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 05:49:46 PM by konjak » Logged
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« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2007, 06:47:17 PM »

Look, if you don't want to believe that there are successful drug users out in the world, that's your deal. I am not going to stop you. I know that there are, and if you look, I'm sure you'd find some, too.

This thread is about finding a way to make drugs useful to a game developer. And though you use a lot of words to defend yourself and your decision, you aren't making the delineation between useful and not useful use any more clear. If all you care to do is talk with each other why you think drugs are bad, that's fair, but don't ruin what's here.
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« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2007, 06:56:52 PM »

I don't care if people already use drugs, that's their problem.
I just really hate people trying to justify drugs to others who don't use it. You're allowed to hate me for that.

I never said there aren't successful drug users, but drugs should not be seen as a step towards a more creative future.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 07:04:06 PM by konjak » Logged
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