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[droqen]

0 0 0 0
2 2 2 2
2 2 2 2
4 4 4 4

There are two players in this game: Player 0 and Player 4.

How to move:
Find a number on your end of the spectrum (Player 0 finds a 0) and add or subtract any amount from it such that the number remains between 0 and 4, inclusive. Then, perform a reverse operation on any adjacent numbers, splitting the value up as you see fit.

0 1
1 2

add 3

3 1
1 2

3 = 1 + 2
subtract 1 from 1 (top-right)
subtract 2 from 2 (bottom-right)

3 0
1 0

How to start:
The player who goes first has a handicap -- on their first move, they lose 1 to the other player. This means that whoever goes first has a constant but subtle disadvantage in that the universe is tilted slightly towards the other player.

0 0 0 0
2 2 2 2
2 2 2 2
4 4 4 4

Player 0 goes first.

0 +3 = 3
2 -1 = 1
2 -1 = 1

Because Player 0 is going first, a single -1 is lost,
and it only happens on this first turn.

0 0 0 3
2 2 1 1
2 2 2 2
4 4 4 4

Then, Player 4 goes.

4 -3 = 1
2 +1 = 3
2 +1 = 3
2 +1 = 3

0 0 0 3
2 2 1 1
2 3 3 3
4 4 1 4

How to win/lose:

If you cannot make a move (your number has gone extinct) then you lose the game, and the other player wins. This is the only time the game ends.

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE A MOVE THAT CAUSES BOTH NUMBERS TO GO 'EXTINCT', BOTH PLAYERS TO LOSE.

I'd like some feedback:

Is there even a win strategy? Can this game go on forever? Is it fun to play? It is just repetitive? What the hell was I thinking when I made this? (The original version was supposed to be 000000 vs. FFFFFF but obviously that has since changed; it would have been too huge and dumb)

000000
333333
333333
333333
333333
666666

Here is a variation that apparently works really well!

[droqen]

I... I played this game against myself.

Code:

0000
2222
2222
4444

0 and 4 play (0 goes first)

0300
1212
2333
4414

0 and 4 play

0330
1002
2344
4421

0 plays

0330
1032
2233
4421

4 plays

0330
1032
4243
4121

0 plays

0330
0332
3233
4121

4 plays

0330
0332
3233
1421

0 plays

3330
0032
3233
1421

4 plays

3330
0032
3243
1141

0 plays

3330
0332
3033
1141

4 plays

3330
0332
3144
1111

0 plays

3330
3332
0144
1111

4 plays

3330
3442
0114
1211

0 plays

3330
3442
3014
1011

4 plays

3331
3412
3124
1011

0 plays

3311
3412
3024
0301

4 plays

3311
3412
3041
0311

0 plays

3311
3202
3341
0311

4 plays

3311
3212
3411
0411

0 plays

3311
3212
3311
2311

This move is not allowed, as it results in a horrible stalemate
where 0 and 4 are both eliminated from the world.

So, 0 is doomed.

3311
3212
0411
3411

4 plays

3311
3212
2211
3411

4 is victorious!

[JMickle]

do you have msn? or could you make a client for this?

[droqen]

I have MSN.

I could probably throw together a quick client too!

[iPope]

So if I add 3 to one number, I have to remove three from adjacent tiles in any way I see fit?

It seems like a interesting and simple game, shame it can't really be played on paper.

[mokesmoe]

You could play this using tiles by having stacks, as you would just move the tile around. I'm gonna try this right now, if I can find anything good to use as tiles.

[droqen]

You need 32 stackables if you're gonna do it that way (and preferably stackables that can be flipped to look different so that Player 4's movable pieces are more obvious).

Also, iPope, pretty much: but know that the first number you touch must be your own number -- so you will always be subtracting from one piece first if you're Player 4 and always adding to the first piece if you're Player 0.

// And yeah, it's too bad, but... it's not like there are any really board-y games that you can play on paper, are there?

[mokesmoe]

I found the answer!!! PENNIES!!!!

I haven't played it yet but i will in like 10 seconds. I promise.

EDIT: I just played it with my sister, and then again by myself. I think the game is unwinnable for whoever goes first, with the extra +/- 1. I'll try again later without that rule, but can't right now.

[droqen]

mokesmoe you know that rule only applies for the very first move you make, right?

Anyway, very cool :3

( edit :: I can't really think of any downside less substantial than that for whoever goes first. hrm. )

[mokesmoe]

Yes, I know it's only the first turn.
You could not have any penalty, like checkers, or chess.

After a few more games, it's only unwinnable against people of the same skill level, so it was a good handicap when I went against family members after I played a couple times and they hadn't.

It was a cool game to my family members, and if non-gamers like it then it's a good game for everyone.

Also, you need 33 stackables if player 0 goes first.

I found the best way of explaing it to them was to have it set up already with the extra penny to the side. Then I said that for their turn, they move pennies from their stack to other stacks for 4, and take from other stacks for 0, which makes more sense to non-nerds than your more mathematical way of explaining it.


It didn't go on forever. The win strategy so far: (from 0's point of view)
Be defensive. Build up 3s behind you, and don't let 4 get to them. you want to be like a slowly advancing wall, trying not to leave any gaps, which is hard. you need to have 0s behind your forward 0s though, so 4 cant just block them with 1 each.

[droqen]

Hmm. That's fair, but I would like to point out that on a much smaller board the effect of that first turn could be pretty big.

I guess the rules surrounding that first move handicap are pretty weird anyway.

//

Right, uh. What would you think of another win condition? One that is less prone to running around in circles? Something along the lines of filling the back row, or maybe just requiring you to keep at least one of your big number in your back row? (so you could take a risk by surrounding a guy in the backrow with numbers strong for your opponent and just try to keep him out, or be a bit more cautious and keep strong values back there in case your front line falters).

[mokesmoe]

I have not encountered any running around in circles, because spreading out gives you an advantage, as long as you don't play too risky. Running in circles gets you stuck in a corner.

Getting to the other side would actually encourage running in circles, as you would want to dodge the other guy to get there faster.

[JMickle]

if i could get a version of this on my phone with an ai player i might have to give you money or make love to you or something

[JMickle]

my girlfriend saw me write the last part of that post and shouted at me

[droqen]

... I could totally make some AI for this.

nngghh

I want to make a mobile game outta this. Time to get my AI hat on for when I'm not working on Starseed Pilgrim (speaking of that, JMickle I gonna bother you again via PM).

& hahaha xD // JMickle did you play it with yourself/someone else or something? o:

[JMickle]

1) yes bother me again sorry

2) not yet but i really want to. i'll give it a shot with my gf

[mokesmoe]

I just played BASE TWO. It was really great, you should try it.

Only even numbers can be set up fairly, so technically you couldn't do 0 to F, as F is 15 and odd. (You need an odd number to have a middle number, but 0 offsets it.)

I have a jar full of pennies, so I'm going to attempt BASE SIX.

[droqen]

Well... You could do other variations such as:

00000
11111
22222
33333
44444

Sounds... awesome, though o: lemme know how it goes, if it does indeed go!

edit :: For odd numbers...

0000
1111
2222
3333

[mokesmoe]

But not an odd number grid.

[mokesmoe]

I am in the middle of BASE SIX with my dad. He's picking up my sister, so there's a pause right now. It's is really fun, and a lot mote strategic, as the game last longer than just the increase in size.

I had him trapped in a corner, but he escaped and moved to the sides. I still seem to be winning, but he's not lost yet.

one sec, I'll type the numbers

Code:

0 5 0 5 5 0
0 5 5 0 3 3
3 1 6 4 0 3
3 1 6 4 5 5
3 2 1 4 5 5
6 6 1 0 2 1

I'm 0, and I started at the top. His move.


EDIT: He won.

He escaped with his pieces at the bottom left and then trapped me in the the top left.

I think my problem was that I played too aggressively in the beginning, leaving my home turf unfit for providing backup. It's hard, because you really need to plan ahead in this game!