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[hyphz]

Ok, I wish I could make this a competition like the official ones, but I know people like this kind of thing here and it's something that'd be really valuable if people want to give it a try..

Make the best game you can in Alice ( http://www.alice.org/index.php?page=downloads/download_alice )

I know it's limited, but that's the challenge.

The main reason for this: the University I work with is going to use Alice to teach coding next year, and although the people working on it will be nowhere near advanced enough to write games, it will help if I can show them things to prove to them that "hey, this isn't just a stupid toy language".  It comes with a pre-made simple flight simulator and I was able to make a very small shooting game in about an hour and a half, so it's by no means impossible.  (Hint: make sure to set everything with duration = 0 if things are slowing down )

[jcromartie]

Looks interesting.  Downloading...

the University I work with is going to use Alice to teach coding next year

What university, and what level course?  And what made them choose Alice for university students over something like Scheme, Python, Smalltalk, Java, or C?

[hyphz]

They're using Alice mainly for novice or conversion students who are doing a computing degree but have never done any programming before.  It's only for the very first introductory programming module - after that, they're quickly converted to "real" Java. 

The main reason for using it is to deal with motivation: students writing simple command-line programs in previous years have quickly gotten demotivated because their programs are nothing like anything considered a "real" program in the real world, and there is no apparent route towards that.  (Some universities do teach programming with graphical UIs but there are real problems with teaching event driven programming too early, without having a grasp of control flow first.)

The logic is that letting them do something graphical would be a boost. Letting them do something graphical in a language with proven potential would be an even bigger boost and would also give the "hardcore" students with programming experience something to play with in their own time if they want to.

[jcromartie]

doing a computing degree but have never done any programming before

I see...  wow.  Are there really kids entering a comp sci degree who haven't programmed before?  That makes me feel a LOT better about skipping college.

[hyphz]

I see...  wow.  Are there really kids entering a comp sci degree who haven't programmed before?

Ohh yes.  Certainly in the UK, this is very common.  In fact, often a fair number of the entrants will be people with no initial interest in computers, who are doing the degree just to have the most employment options afterwards (after all, all jobs use computers, right?).  Some of them turn out to love programming, others turn out to hate it.

[zantifon]

Are there really kids entering a comp sci degree who haven't programmed before?

My university makes a point of admitting students with no experience. About 1/4 of incoming CS freshman have no programming experience at all. Of course, technically speaking CS isn't about programming; a lot of the studies and concentrations focus on theory and mathematics.

[mewse]

Are there really kids entering a comp sci degree who haven't programmed before?

I relayed this question to a CS lecturer I know.  Her reply was that there are kids finishing comp sci degrees who still haven't programmed.

Yay for academic standards.   

[Zaphos]

I relayed this question to a CS lecturer I know.  Her reply was that there are kids finishing comp sci degrees who still haven't programmed.

Yay for academic standards.   

I don't think that would have happened at my school ... but anyway, I think you get out of a school what you put in to it, and even if you can glide through it's pretty obvious which students are putting the work in and learning a lot, and which ones just got a degree to get a degree.

[zantifon]

Her reply was that there are kids finishing comp sci degrees who still haven't programmed.

Yay for academic standards.   

Was the tone of the reply implying that this was a bad thing? Like I said, CS isn't really about coding. That's more software engineering. CS is about studying the theory behind it, much analogous chemistry and chemical engineering.

Granted, most schools end up bundling what is really software engineering under the facade of "computer science," but you don't have to program to be a successful computer scientist, or even a software engineer for that matter.

That being said, I do agree that it's a shame to make it though the degree without having at least a modicum of competence in coding...

[Hideous]

I'm bored, so I'm gonna download it and give it a try.


EDIT: Ok, no. I need a download mirror. This ain't working.

[Eclipse]

[...]but you don't have to program to be a successful computer scientist, or even a software engineer for that matter.

are you serious? ._.
I don't wanna think what kind of software engineeres have you there....

[Zaphos]

are you serious? ._.

Well, you can definitely be a great theoretical computer scientist and never code anything ... I think the software engineers do program, though.

I don't wanna think what kind of software engineeres have you there....

I think he's talking about Carnegie Mellon, which is where I went, too, so ... it's some of the best in the world

[Movius]

The key to learning software engineering/programming/whatever is in a sound mathematical ability and a decent grasp of logical thinking.

Lack of prior coding experience is trivial compared to these skills.