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[simono]

Although XD I am in the UK so my perspective is a little different anyway (unless they have increased fees, in which case, booo!)

did you really miss that 

http://www.google.at/search?q=uk+demonstration+fee

[mixzed]

If you did decide to take the college route I would major in a more marketable skill - computer science, IT, Business & Marketing and take art as a minor. 

Avoid Art History classes if you can - stick to drawing, illustration and computer graphics classes. I would also throw an architecture class in if your perspective drawing lacks.

In my experiences if you can put together a kick-ass portfolio most companies will overlook the lack of an art degree. I have a degree in Computer Science but I've only had artist jobs.

[bento_smile]

Although XD I am in the UK so my perspective is a little different anyway (unless they have increased fees, in which case, booo!)

did you really miss that 

http://www.google.at/search?q=uk+demonstration+fee

No, I posted it before the vote. 

[Xion]

But art history classes are fun!

(though I had a completely fucking radtastic teacher who probably could've made any class fun)

[jwk5]

Food for thought: At the Puyallup Fair here in WA they had an exhibit called "This is why you should never go to art school". On one side was art done from people who had completed art school, on the other was art done by people who never went to any kind of art school whatsoever. The art from the people who'd never attended art school was better by a mile.

That is not to say that will always be the case, but the exhibit is a good example of the fact that art school will not make you an artist, at best it will just refine the artist you already are (and at worst it can run your creativity right into the ground, I've heard plenty of horror stories about such).

The upside is anyone can be an artist regardless of schooling. Being an artist is like being a fighter. If you don't have the will and instinct to fight then all the martial arts training, books, videos, etc. in the world won't do you a damn bit of good. However the will to fight can be developed and drawn out, as can the urge to create art.

On the flip side of it all, art school can be a great place to meet other artists and can provide you with discipline and challenges for your art which can be a great artistic motivator, so artistic improvement doesn't have to be the only reason to attend.

[Xion]

One I'm kinda worried about if I don't go to art school is that I won't know where I stand against my peers. Like, in a classroom setting I can look around and see where everyone is and where I am and if I'm doing shitty I need to step up my game and if I'm doing well I can gloat and be an asshole (not really). I dunno, maybe this is a non-issue but I like to know where I stand compared other people in my bracket. After all we might be competing for a job (or a woman, in some strange romantic comedy taking place on a summer trip to Italy, or South Africa) one day and I should know what They and I are capable of or I will look like The Fool Who Thinks He Knows but in reality Has No Idea.

[PogueSquadron]

It's always good to see where you fall with your peers (especially if you can all rally together and encourage each other to improve).  Getting a really good teacher can be pretty invaluable though, and to me that's the number one thing about going to (a good) art school (or really, any sort of formal education).  I improved so much with certain teachers, just upon the insights that "the human body has no convexities," or getting a great lesson in color by watching a teacher mix and paint.

[pgil]

Food for thought: At the Puyallup Fair here in WA they had an exhibit called "This is why you should never go to art school". On one side was art done from people who had completed art school, on the other was art done by people who never went to any kind of art school whatsoever. The art from the people who'd never attended art school was better by a mile.

And there's no way your anecdotal hippie fair story could be biased

I'm working on a studio art degree at a public university, and I'm pretty satisfied so far. I get critique by my peers (and professors who have experience), space in which to work, and the discipline to build a portfolio.

And it can be affordable. Got to a state school, and apply for federal grants, subsidized loans, and scholarships. There is no reason to pay more than like 8% interest, or ever build up interest while you're in school.


Edit: I'm assuming you're in the US. But depending on where you live you might have similar (or better (or worse)) options.

[jwk5]

And there's no way your anecdotal hippie fair story could be biased

I love it when people can't make a counter-point without being snide (it doesn't make you clever, it makes you rude). Anyways, the point of the exhibit wasn't to say "going to art school makes you suck" it was to say "art school doesn't guarantee talent", which is about accurate don't you think? Just for the record, the Puyallup fair isn't a "hippie fair" it is one of the bigger fairs in the northwest and a lot of artists sell their wares there (which is why they had such an exhibit there in the first place).

One I'm kinda worried about if I don't go to art school is that I won't know where I stand against my peers.

Look around DeviantArt and you'll see a good range of skill levels. Your peers are all over the internet, not just in a classroom.

[Zaphos]

And there's no way your anecdotal hippie fair story could be biased

I love it when people can't make a counter-point without being snide. Anyways, the point of the exhibit wasn't to say "going to art school makes you suck" it was to say "art school doesn't guarantee talent", which is about accurate don't you think? Just for the record, the Puyallup fair is one of the bigger fairs in the northwest and a lot of artists sell their wares there.

Obviously no school guarantees talent, but it does sound like this is a case where the point is exaggerated by biased selection.  I mean, it sounds like it's showing the worst of art school vs the best of non-art-school stuff?  And I would also think the people who would submit to the art school side of that would primarily be people who are bitter about not getting a lot out of art school.

[jwk5]

Obviously no school guarantees talent, but it does sound like this is a case where the point is exaggerated by biased selection. I mean, it sounds like it's showing the worst of art school vs the best of non-art-school stuff?

If you'd seen the exhibit you'd know it is clearly exaggerated and definitely showing some of the worst of art school (though I don't know about the best of non-art-school on the other side). That was the point of it all. It is saying you can be a good artist despite not going to art school and you can be a bad artist despite going to art school (but saying it in a tongue-in-cheek manner). Here in WA art school is made out to be a pretty big deal and commercials and ads for them are all over the place (the closer you get to Seattle, especially, which is only 15-20 minutes away from me). The exhibit was meant to be a counter-point, I think.

And I would also think the people who would submit to the art school side of that would primarily be people who are bitter about not getting a lot out of art school.

Probably, lol, but at least they were bitter with a sense of humor.

[pgil]

If you'd seen the exhibit you'd know it is clearly exaggerated and definitely showing some of the worst of art school (though I don't know about the best of non-art-school on the other side).

That's the point I was trying to make. So.. um... Thanks for destroying your own argument

[jwk5]

If you'd seen the exhibit you'd know it is clearly exaggerated and definitely showing some of the worst of art school (though I don't know about the best of non-art-school on the other side).

That's the point I was trying to make. So.. um... Thanks for destroying your own argument

What argument? I was agreeing with what you said, just explaining what I thought the motivation behind the exhibit was.

[PogueSquadron]

Well, I knew plenty of kids that I don't even know how they graduated (or got into the school in the first place).  That will happen with any kind of formal education though.  The kids that take advantage of it and learn from it and work hard will oftentimes have a huge leg up on people who haven't had formal training.

Keep in mind though, this is someone who went to a good school heavy in illustration, graphic design, and computer animation.  I'm sure results will vary elsewhere.

[Jrsquee]

Man, I feel you.
I'm just finishing (tomorrow morning is my last class before winter break) my first semester at art school. I'm not really sure about art school yet. It was a rather last-minute choice! I originally planned to get a degree in mathematics. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have about my experiences/decision-making/application process/portfolio/whatever.

[Jetrel]

One I'm kinda worried about if I don't go to art school is that I won't know where I stand against my peers.

Look around DeviantArt and you'll see a good range of skill levels. Your peers are all over the internet, not just in a classroom.

What he said.  Also, (presuming we're caring about being a game artist because this is a gamedev forum), existing AAA videogames.  Tons of them show off their sketchwork and their concept art galleries.  The number of peers available to compare yourself to on the internet is several orders of magnitude bigger than any classroom, ever.

This is actually a paradigm shift;  the internet offers tons of things that used to be exclusive to art schools, and it offers them in larger quantities.  Also, sturgeon's law* notwithstanding, in surprisingly similar quality.  Used to be that most of the things that are crucially helpful in becoming a good artist were available only from an art school, but the internet is really transforming that.  The one huge thing you don't get, is art teachers and peers actually looking over your shoulder and helping correct/coach you as you work;  you instead have to draw something, post it, and then get the critique.  C&C is a lot more awkward on the internet ....  but that's offset by the much, much larger pool of people reviewing your work.



* sturgeon's law =  90% of anything is crap

[Toom]

Asking "is an art degree worth it" isn't really an answerable question; your mileage can and will vary. Will an art degree definitely equip you with the skills and knowledge you need? That really depends on you, on where you do the course, and what speciality you go into. Will it help your game design ambitions? See previous answer. Will an art degree automatically get you a job in industry? Of course not.

For what it's worth, I've got a BA in Illustration, and whilst I was left wanting in a lot of areas (the university I went to was absolutely bollocksed while I was there, and the unhelpful timing of a teacher's strike that spanned much of my final year didn't help much), I probably learned more valuable and applicable lessons in those three years than I ever would've scumming around DevArt or posting on forums. Actual proximity and face-to-face interaction is pretty helpful bizniz when it comes to critiquing and improving art, I think.

[jwk5]

A sometimes good alternative to art school is good artist friends. I tend to be the most art-inspired when I am around my friends that are also artists, and we tend to pass on any new techniques we've picked up. You can also try going to places artists (of similar artistic interests) go. Here (Tacoma,WA), Borders Books & Music, the art stores downtown, Freight House Square, and a lot of the coffee shops are a good place to go to bump into other artists.

There's no single path to learning, you just gotta find what works for you (be it researching on your own, learning with friends, going to an art school, or whatever). People succeed and fail regardless of what knowledge they picked up where so don't let fears of failure or dreams of success blindside you just figure out what you think you need to get where you want to be. Whether you will succeed or fail no one can say but at least you'd be heading in a direction that is your own.

[PogueSquadron]

Yeah, you just have to find what works for you.  Art school, no art school...you get out of life what you put into it.

[gimymblert]

http://www.fastcodesign.com/1662634/american-design-schools-are-a-mess-and-produce-weak-graduates

As head of a major Silicon Valley industrial design studio, I review hundreds or even thousands of portfolios every year. It is an essential part of my job as I look for the best people to join our growing team. Because the right mix of talent is so crucial to our success, I make it a principle to review every portfolio sent to us myself.

That commitment puts me in a bit of a tight spot, as I struggle to find the right way to say the right things to people whose high hopes I'm forced to dash. Despite the recent surge in interest in design careers, the quality of candidates' portfolios seems to have stagnated or even diminished.

The problem has become increasingly acute. I'm eager to hire the next great class of designers, but to my dismay--and the dismay of many young hopefuls who've often spent many years and thousands of dollars preparing to enter the industry--I'm finding that the impressive academic credentials of most students don't add up to the basic skills I require in a junior designer.

[...]

Much of the work that students show me in their portfolios is broken into two categories: skills work (3D CAD) and process work (research, model-making). Only a few show projects showcasing the applicant's ability to integrate seamlessly all levels of creativity. Such well integrated notion of design is shared by a few good programs: In the U.S., Cincinnati has an excellent program with very solid graduates, while In Europe, many German and some UK schools are developing an excellent sense of cohesion in their grads.

But most portfolios I see lack the critical mass associated with a solid inside-out, outside-in, perception of design rather than simply skills training.