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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsPike 'n Shot [an arcade Pike and Shoot'em up] (alpha v0.2)
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Author Topic: Pike 'n Shot [an arcade Pike and Shoot'em up] (alpha v0.2)  (Read 35200 times)
James Edward Smith
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« Reply #160 on: October 19, 2016, 08:48:22 pm »

Neat first boss :D

Perhaps for an added difficulty, make some of the wolves disable the pike, like they impale themselves on a pike making that pikeman struggle with his pike for a few seconds. If no other pikeman is there to stab the next foe, this will leave the pikeman exposed to being melee'd. This will give incentive to evade or shoot down the horde before a lot of them could get close.

Perhaps could be a similar fashion when an enemy with a 2 handed sword can swipe the pike wall, knocking away the pikes and micro-stunning the 2-3 pikemen. To avoid this, one simply has to untap the pike hold button to make a quick evade of the swipe. Makes for a neat mini skill game within the game  Shrug

This guy is already really tough, don't worry. People are going to be getting BODIED by this guy when they first fight him. The way the wolves work right now is they are immune to pikes so you HAVE to dodge or shoot them, robbing you of shots that you need to hit the boss with. The only use of your pikes in the fight is to hold the boss off if he gets close and you have no shots ready to fire at him.

As for the enemies that take swings at pikes and need to be evaded with quick pike raises, I already have this in the game, it's just not in a level yet.

I do like the idea of a wolf grabbing on to a pike though, like a dog playing tug of war.

Wow, neat stuff!

At one point I had a similar idea - "Phalanx" where you could control a platoon of hoplites, change their orientation, their line strength (width) etc. and try to fight off enemies.

In my case it was a bit dull though, I thought then it might work better with it being a multiplayer game where some people could be archers in the back and the rest would to try to stay together.

I then went on to make some keyframe animation in JavaScript and uploaded that variant here http://quickgame6.atwebpages.com/quickgame11/index.html but it has nothing of the original concept.

Either way -

your game looks fun! Wolves are cool



Maybe having 4 or 5 types of line men would be interesting, when you have to set their order (and who to take) before battle and make it efficient for good swapping.
For example shield guys, which could deflect potential enemy bullets, swords, bayonets, etc. and then have enemies that are effective vs different types of weaponry.

I like how the guys move and animate in that. It feels kinda like I don't know when I can shield after an attack though and I think I'd prefer that if I try to attack when I can't, but hold down the button, that the attack would come out as soon as it can. Having to wait until just the right time to attack after I recover feels clumsy. Maybe change up the animation of the strike a bit too so that it LOOKS like I'm off balance after strikes for longer. Right now it looks like there's too long of a time where my guy seems like he should be able to attack again or block, but just refuses to. What I mean to say is, mechanically it makes sense and works, but the animation isn't selling the mechanics very well.

Yeah, I've been struggling with whether I want to and can add lots of troop types. I'm worried I won't be able to make levels that work well enough with unit types that are too different from each other and if they are really similar, then what's the point of having them at all? What might be more feasible is to have different formations where I can create two types of troops per each one and that way I can have pretty different kinds of soldiers, but make sure that as a formation they play nice with the level designs.

We'll see. I'm trying to find something that will work. Hopefully something does because I really like the idea of being able to unlock other soldiers to play with. My current "plan" is to at least have the Pike & Shot formation with 3 different kinds of doppel soldners, and then a Saurian Shieldwall formation with the same amount of doppel soldners (one of which will be wolves). But I really like the idea of also having two other formations that play the game radically different. One being a "lance" where you ride around on horses and play the game with your speed more like a traditional shmup; and the other being a Wizard where you summon temporary troops and have limited but very powerful attacks.

We'll have to see though.
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« Reply #161 on: October 31, 2016, 08:42:57 am »

I think a lancer formation having fewer numbers would be challenging and the way to go. Let me guess, a mix of Reiters and demilancers huh?  The shoot would have them fire their pistols, however their range is shorter then that of muskets. The pike button would have the lancers charge forward for as long as you hold the button. They cannot attack however when they're still returning back to the formation. They also can't attack when idle/unlaunched. Armored lancers however - I assume being the doppel soldner variants -will stand at the front and absorb hits, and unlike the demilancers, can do melee upfront without needing to charge

Static Disciplined shield walls are impervious to demilancer charge, their shields need to be destroyed by a reiter volley first. Armored lancers however will smash through them. However, shield troops that are running forward are considered disorganized and will be easily pushed stunned down.

Their one weakness? Enemy pikemen blocks. The player can try to shoot them, but on harder levels,  solid pike blocks are better off being evaded


Other enemy type suggestions
-a segment of the map where the player is constantly under fire from cannons. Cannonballs come from the right of the screen, fast projectile and can mow down several men. Should be linear or diagonal on trajectory- and eventually would skid and stop
-eventually you'd encounter a gun or two, you have to be wary as they have a tendency to save their last shots at close range. Your only prompt is seeing the crewmen trying to ignite the cap. They're easily beaten by killing the crewmen, just prepare to dodge. And it'll get complicated when other enemies are around
-and to mess up the player there is a chance that they'd fire early or late, to keep the player on his toes and keep an eye on the crewman.

-What do you feel about enemy pikemen blocks? Easy to gun down, but it'll be a meatgrinder facing them with your own pikemen? Perhaps make them less maneuverable than your block, allowing you to evade them? If you break their formation, they break ranks, drop their pikes and charge?

-another boss: a war wagon. Or a renaissance tank. It'll try to line up on you to shoot its cannon and guns. You can then trick it to crash into an obstacle making them stop. Its crew will then disembark to fix it, while gunners exit and let loose a continuous barrage. It'll force you to lose some men in order to get to its crew. Disable the thing 3 times to defeat it.

-knifeman enemy - a troop that is easy enough to kill. However when facing your pikemen, he will duck under the pikes and reach your troops for melee. He becomes a threat when he starts to attack alongside shieldmen. Expectedly you will hold back shieldmen with your pikes as your gunners reload. This is when the knifeman strikes. You have to make sure you gun him down before he does that. Higher levels means more of these sneaky bastards alongside shieldmen.

-I think you don't need too much variety in troop types, you just need to cleverly set up enemy waves and approach patterns as the levels go by.
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James Edward Smith
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« Reply #162 on: November 01, 2016, 04:34:52 am »

Yeah, that's sort of the idea I had for controlling a lance, a little mix of Reiters and Gendarmes with lances.

I've wanted to have Da Vinci's tank design as a boss for a while. It's a little obvious perhaps, but fun.

My Wolves sort of work like knifemen already, but yeah, I plan on other pike evading melee enemies too. Enemy pike formations might be fun in one level, like fighting off a slow but massive Tercio or something.



Workin' on some terrain, fleeing peasants next.

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« Reply #163 on: November 02, 2016, 12:33:37 am »

Now that you mention it, true. Wolves are  just like that. I' excited how they will make things more challenging when you encounter them in future updates. Beer!
Still looking for formation suggestions? Here's another one.


Crossbowmen and sword and shield infantry
"Machiavelli once suggested a resurgence of Legionnaire like Sword and Shield professional soldiers"

Crossbowmen can't penetrate shields or heavy armor. But they reload faster and can also fire diagonally. If the player is not moving, they fire forward. Moving up or down lets them fire diagonally. Moving up/down and forward/bacward lets them fire somewhere in between (slightly diagonally).
The sword-and-shield men can hold enemies at bay with their shields, but can only kill foes when you hold and tap. This lets them surge out and stab enemies. Careful as enemies can breach their shieldwall and engage in melee with one of the soldiers. The surge attack only works if the formation is standing Still.

Enemies can also attempt to outflank the wall if they outnumber the front ranks. The challenge now is for the player to ensure thinning out the enemy so that there won't be too many to swarm the shield wall. The fast firing and flexible crossbowman could handle this, with the shield men as a last resort against heavy infantry. This reverses the mechanic of the pikemen/musketeer. While the original is all-around- take out high priority targets with guns amd the rest with pikes. This new formation is strong against swarms with its fast firing crossbowmen but requires focus when fighting heavy infantry.

What of the doppel soldner? i think that arbalest/ paviseman unit you created fits perfectly with the static  gameplay of this unit. Imagine this troop type akin to a shmup fighter that is heavier but with more firepower. The arbalestman is deployed when you press shoot then pike button. They'll deploy their shields and start firing ln their own, with auto targetting (I realize this might have some degree of code intensiveness - but I'm no coder ) they will stay on place loosing bolts -which have the power to one shot armored and shielded foes. They can also block missile shots. Once your formation moves that it gets close to the end of the screen, they pack up and rejoin your formation. Their one weakness is that if a melee troops reaches them, they're usually done for. Deploy them well.


On another note: will you be planning to add obstacles in the game? Or would that make things too complicated. Come to think or it, I think I rarely see SHMUPs with obstacles. Save for one of those famous SNES game where it had you travel along the intestines of a giant space monster.
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James Edward Smith
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« Reply #164 on: November 13, 2016, 01:11:05 am »

I drew trees...uhhhh also bushes. (bushes not displayed)

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« Reply #165 on: December 04, 2016, 09:40:43 am »

Oh boy I like this project! Lovely concept, lovely art and animation. The screen simulation is really neat and goes well with the pixel art. I like the man small touches, like your men being all differently dressed rather than in strict uniform: both historically accurate and cool to see. And many more like this. What's more important, the game is really fun to play.
I look forward to see and play more!

Small suggestions:

  • wouldn't it be cool/accurate if shooters held their rifle over their shoulder, when they march not in front line?
    If I were a pikeman,  I would feel threatened with a loaded rifle constantly pointed straight at my back! :D
    And it would be cool to see riflemen hastily go from one pose to the other.
    (actually, they should hastily transition to the aiming pose, and go back to the "rifle over shoulder" at a much more relaxed speed)
  • music: apologies, but personally I think your game deserves better.
    For my tastes, is far too much "shoot'em up from the '80s" and not enough "XVII cen. war music".
    I think it would be really interesting to have some mix of the two, probably tilted toward the latter.
    (which is a very cool genre, musically speaking! a pity, to let the occasion go waste)
  • I kinda like the green skin on the thugs, making them a bit orc like. Kinda cross-over XVII historic and medieval fantasy.
    But, maybe that's a little too much? Did you try making their skin just ... human color, thus keeping the setting just historical/realistic? I suspect it might be just as charming or actually taste even sweeter.

Questions about the demo:

  • I cannot get my zweihanderers (or however they are called) to neatly rotate around my formation like i see in some gif here.
    The read-me instructs me to do something pressing both Pike and Shoot key, but that doesn't seem to do anything.
    They still seem to help enough, autonomously ... am I supposed to be controlling them in any way, or not
  • I see people talking about a boss, but I cannot see any in the demo? I assume the demo is over when enemies stop appearing from the right-end side, then you have to restart the demo yourself (ctrl+1). Is that so?
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« Reply #166 on: December 09, 2016, 01:32:11 am »

That rotating zweihanders gif is old and was just for test. The way the zweihanders now work is that they stay behind the group. With pikemen infront, holding both the pike and shoot buttons will launch the doppelsoldners. Sending them to attack the nearest enemy. When you let ho of the buttons, the doppelsoldner (after having killed one enemy) will run back to the rear.

The boss part hasn't been implemented yet and have just been introduced via the dev logs.
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James Edward Smith
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« Reply #167 on: December 13, 2016, 11:32:17 am »

    Oh boy I like this project! Lovely concept, lovely art and animation. The screen simulation is really neat and goes well with the pixel art. I like the man small touches, like your men being all differently dressed rather than in strict uniform: both historically accurate and cool to see. And many more like this. What's more important, the game is really fun to play.
    I look forward to see and play more!

    Hey, thanks my mtarini.

    Quote
    • wouldn't it be cool/accurate if shooters held their rifle over their shoulder, when they march not in front line?
      If I were a pikeman,  I would feel threatened with a loaded rifle constantly pointed straight at my back! :D
      And it would be cool to see riflemen hastily go from one pose to the other.
      (actually, they should hastily transition to the aiming pose, and go back to the "rifle over shoulder" at a much more relaxed speed)

    This is a cool idea, I'll probably put something like this in. The arquebusier animations need to be redone in general anyway.

    Quote
    • music: apologies, but personally I think your game deserves better.
      For my tastes, is far too much "shoot'em up from the '80s" and not enough "XVII cen. war music".
      I think it would be really interesting to have some mix of the two, probably tilted toward the latter.
      (which is a very cool genre, musically speaking! a pity, to let the occasion go waste)

    The music in it now is just temporary, I'm working with a composer to get something actually good in place for the next release or so.

    Also, the game is really meant to be more 1400s-1500s than 1700s.

    Quote
    • I kinda like the green skin on the thugs, making them a bit orc like. Kinda cross-over XVII historic and medieval fantasy.
      But, maybe that's a little too much? Did you try making their skin just ... human color, thus keeping the setting just historical/realistic? I suspect it might be just as charming or actually taste even sweeter.

    Uhh, the saurian raiders are sort of meant to be green skinned snake guys. They have a back story and stuff that'll be more apparent in the final game.

    They are also coloured that way for readability do that they look radically different from the player's soldiers and so that the bare chested raiders look different from the shielded and armoured brigands and the more traditionally equipped, purple clothed skirmishers.

    Also, a theme of the game is going to be Pike & Shot infantry doing battle and overcoming fantasy creatures and situations. So like, fighting goblins, and dragons and wizards and that sort of thing. So get used to a lot of wacky customers in terms of enemies and bosses.

    Quote
    • I cannot get my zweihanderers (or however they are called) to neatly rotate around my formation like i see in some gif here.
      The read-me instructs me to do something pressing both Pike and Shoot key, but that doesn't seem to do anything.
      They still seem to help enough, autonomously ... am I supposed to be controlling them in any way, or not

    Sorry, that readme is out of date. The way the doppel soldners work in that demo is that if you have your pikes lowered, they with automatically attack anyone in their range (a small ring around your formation). The idea was that they would function sort of like a power up to your shot does in regular chump. So like some special soldiers would augment your pike button and some would augment your shot button. It was a cool idea, but I've kinda scrapped it. Expect them to work sort of like how the readme says in the next release but with new behaviour and some other changes to how they function (mostly new UI).

    Quote
    • I see people talking about a boss, but I cannot see any in the demo? I assume the demo is over when enemies stop appearing from the right-end side, then you have to restart the demo yourself (ctrl+1). Is that so?

    Yeah, the boss isn't in that demo. He's done for the next release, I just need to finish the rest of the level before him and maybe do a title screen and some stuff.
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    James Edward Smith
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    « Reply #168 on: January 02, 2017, 01:32:49 am »

    I've been overwhelmed at my new job lately, so I haven't been able to work on Pike 'n Shot for a bit. But not being out on the street is nice too.

    tonight though, I got some animations done for my little mook soldiers (npc soldiers to make the levels look more like a battle, you know, like the guys in Knights of the Round.)







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    « Reply #169 on: January 02, 2017, 05:47:55 pm »

    Very smooth animations!
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    « Reply #170 on: February 08, 2017, 01:23:49 pm »

    WOW! Hadn't checked your progress in forever! That animation kinda looks like you've been getting some coaching... have you been getting some coaching, James!!

    Really liking the authentic looking CRT effects too. The subtle screen bulge is quite convincing.
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    « Reply #171 on: February 09, 2017, 08:43:27 pm »

    I like it.  Interesting mix of tactics, graphics and fast paced game play.  I will be watching..
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    James Edward Smith
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    « Reply #172 on: March 26, 2017, 01:51:10 am »

    My old arquebusiers were lame and didn't have a variation like the rest of my troops. Now they are cool and are a cute pair of hand gonner & arquebusier like a regular Punch & Judy.





    Primitive perhaps but if it fails to go off, you can always just whack them with it.

    « Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 02:06:21 am by James Edward Smith » Logged

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    « Reply #173 on: March 26, 2017, 07:42:44 pm »



    I was sorta tempted to add in some pocket sand being released when the arm goes forward before the thrust.
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    « Reply #174 on: March 26, 2017, 07:59:08 pm »

    How many developers are working on this game? I like the concept but are you planning on creating more interesting levels than what I'm currently seeing? Just want to know if that's how the level going to look like for real. Keep up the great work.
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    « Reply #175 on: March 26, 2017, 08:20:24 pm »

    No, that level in the downloadable right now is just bullshit random experiments.

    Also only I work on this game.
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    « Reply #176 on: March 29, 2017, 05:21:59 am »

    the sound effect are truly charming, I love the whole retro vibe you got here
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