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December 14, 2017, 01:49:47 am

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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsPike 'n Shot [an arcade Pike and Shoot'em up] (alpha v0.2)
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Author Topic: Pike 'n Shot [an arcade Pike and Shoot'em up] (alpha v0.2)  (Read 37198 times)
quantumpotato
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« Reply #180 on: October 11, 2017, 01:37:12 pm »

So wolves & pikemen can disable each other?
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« Reply #181 on: October 11, 2017, 07:33:28 pm »

Yeah, which can put the pikeman in danger depending on what is going on around him. It does disable the wolf for the time being too though. Only happens if wolf meets pike tip; if a wolf just attacks an idle pikeman, it just kills him in the resulting melee unless it's interrupted, like all melees.
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« Reply #182 on: October 19, 2017, 05:11:47 am »

I'm checking back now and then, and I'm quite happy to see you're still working on this  Grin
Mechanically, I don't mind the current behaviour of wolves (shots scare them off, pikes do nothing to them because they are TOO WILY) but I feel like the visual communication of their pike invulnerability or lack there of is awkward ludonarratively. I could create some sort of bobbing and weaving animation that would play whenever they were colliding with pikes to illustrate what was happening, but I don't know if it would read all that well.

But also, I like the idea of a lowered pike just being disabled if it stops a charging wolf, marooning the pikeman away from the formation until he is set free by a shot scaring off the wolf.

Why not do both?
You can have the early wolves just wrestle with the pike, while other enemies charge close. Then you could have a later level wolves that are immune to pikes and head straight for the kill. Why not instead of bobbing and weaving, you can just simply make them lunge/jump, make it so that on collosion with pikes, they will jump the distance towards the pikeman. It'll be cleaner and easier to animate too as compared to bobbing and weaving.

In that vein, I also imagine a late level cavalry enemy... Dothraki-like bandit. Whom if his horse gets killed with a pike, he instead jumps forward to crash on one of your pikemen. Would make for a surprise WTF moment for the player. To translate it, have him prepare to stand up atop his horse when he gets very close to your formation.
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« Reply #183 on: October 19, 2017, 08:21:09 pm »

Yeah that's a neat idea. I already have Knights on horse back with lances, but something like that could be cool. Maybe something like run away wagons in the undead level where you can shoot them to blow them up or pike them to stop them but you want to stop the empty ones and shoot the ones with guys standing on the tops of them, or they'll jump off when you bump them like that and get you.

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« Reply #184 on: October 30, 2017, 01:31:21 pm »

Am I the only one unable to run the demo?
I'm on Windows 10 (64 bit). I unzip the demo in one fonder, then I try running the .exe: nothing happens.
(the first time I have to enforce "run anyway" because clearly Windows Defender didn't trust the "potential malware").

Using the task manager, I see a "Pike `n Shot.exe (32 bit)" task briefly appearing, then giving up and silently dying.
Even tried to "run it as an adiministrator", and running the "vshost.exe" version: nothing.

I used to be able to run it, but it might have been a different version and for sure it was on a different computer.

EDIT: I could run it just once with:
Right click, [Properties], [Compatibility] tab, Check [Override high DPI scaling behavior]. [Scaling performed by]: picked [application]. [Apply], then, run. I got a "dot net" error message about "No graphic device manager", ignored it, and could run the game... once. Next time, it refused to start, and is still refusing now, no matter which settings I try. Strange...
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 01:47:58 pm by mtarini » Logged

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« Reply #185 on: October 30, 2017, 03:14:46 pm »

regardless of exec problem, game is increasingly lovely!
Wolves-VS-pike animations are so nice!
(Kudos for not letting the furry ones die!)

I fear that, in general, you'll also need the opposite: things against which pikes fare batter than the shots. I understand guns have the drawback of the reload delay, but still their range risks making them almost sufficient for all occasions. It's cool to have all the enemy features (ranged attacks, shields, and now wolves) which require shots (pikes being ineffective against them), but sooner or later I suspect you'll need to invent something which works the opposite way: gunshots aren't as effective/definitive against them, but pikes are. Hard to imagine what, exactly, but still. Smaller evasive targets able to dodge bullets?



Let me throw a one more idea in your general direction:

Disarray: what if the formation wasn't so precisely kept in sync when moving. For example, each man could have a slight, random delay in starting to move or changing direction, so that if you keep moving in all directions your formation would "accumulate" some amount of disarray.

Benefit 1: a potentially interesting looking, and more realistic, formation behavior, having the look more like a group of men striving to move in sync, but not exactly, i.e. not one like one solid object moving around like now.

Benefit 2: potentially improved gameplay tactics: while in disarray, the volleys won't be as effective (shots are not as equally spaced, so they can miss more), and dangerous gaps may form in pike walls (letting the occasional enemy slip through!). It is enough for the player to stop a short while, to give to the formation the time to regroup in the perfectly tight formation as seen now. Which means, ultimately, that pausing a while before shooting / pike impact will give the player a better shoot / pike performance, and he must balance movement and aggressiveness. (note: in this small suggestion, starting movement or changing direction to cause an increase in the disarray, because each man has a small random delay in complying to the change; keeping to move in one direction would not increase or decrease the disarray; and staying still would quickly heal it, because when not moving each man will rush to his intended position)

Benefit 3: the perfect occasion for a new special troop: the drummer (or, flute singer?). They do nothing, but their presence makes the random delay, and thus the disarray accumulation, diminish considerably. With two or three of them, the formation might behave just like now, able to maneuver at will without losing a single step as a single man, always in splendid efficiency.
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« Reply #186 on: November 01, 2017, 04:07:42 pm »

What version are you downloading and from where?

Quote
I fear that, in general, you'll also need the opposite: things against which pikes fare batter than the shots.

Pikes currently have the massive advantage of the fact that they are always active when they attack and never need to be reloaded. Shots need to be more powerful and beat stuff that pikes can't or you'd never use them and just walk around with your pike button held down and the game would incredibly boring.

Right now the necessity of shots is that they can kill anything, and they can kill from much farther away than pikes can which pretty much have to close to melee range. The large size of your formation and it's slow speed make dodging the fast, ranged attacks very difficult or next to impossible when in pike range. Shooting ranged attackers is often necessary to avoid taking losses.

The point of pikes is to protect you and/or kill melee cannon fodder attackers and to block fast moving threats that aren't projectiles so they can't tear you apart. The demos you've played probably never put you in an actual tough situation yet, but trust me, when you play harder levels I'm going to make that aren't meant as basically a tutorial, you're going to be glad you have your pikes; there's no way to survive the game without them. When there's a significant amount of enemies coming at you, from enough angles, you just don't have enough firepower, quickly enough to actually deal with everything. You have to pick and choose what you shoot at and what you kill or hold off with pikes and when. That's the game essentially.

But Pikes and Shots will never be equal, they can't be. The whole design of the game is that they are two different tools for two different purposes, the slight overlap of which is unimportant.



I started drawing, "The Fangs" rock formations at the mouth of the cave that Los Colmillos' brigand camp is in.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 04:14:51 pm by James Edward Smith » Logged

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« Reply #187 on: November 01, 2017, 08:41:02 pm »

Mocking up a little something with some Bandit Lair tiles I made.

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« Reply #188 on: November 08, 2017, 10:37:39 am »

Those totem poles: humans have spirit animals at their totem poles. I can see that the lizardmen also believe that too. But they also consider humans as a form of animal.

------
Another enemy suggestion. I know you're looking at a renaissance feel with a bit of low fantasy here, but how about war elephants? Or a lizardman equivalent? Or for a african-esque level?

Elephant: lumbers towards you and can get hurt by 2 volleys of shot, however once it charges it is now invulnerable to shot. It will mow down your men unless if you manage to position your pikemen that at least 4 pikes in the front row hit it. If less than that it'll mow down all the rows of men in front of it. Your pikemen also has to be standing still to register the 4 pike hit (this could be considered as them bracing). When  done successfully the elephant is impaled and killed.

War Elephant: this baddy has been trained to swing his armed trunk or tusks as it charges. It will smash through your pikemen. You have to shoot it mid charge to confuse it - this'll stop him from swinging as it visibly closes its eyes in confusion but still charging wildly. As with the first elephant version above it you can now position and brace your pikemen only when it is confused from the volley.

Armored Elephant: the boss version. Has armor, and has a howdah that holds archers/javelinmen. It is like the war elephant, but instead of being killed by a braced 4 pike hit, it is instead pushed back and it will lumber backwards towards the right side of the screen. During this time you could damage its armor by shooting at it. Visible armor splinters will appear as a sign that you're damaging it. Eventually after repeated shooting of it you'll destroy its armor and now you can kill it like a regular war elephant. However you will also contend with its archers/javelinmen who will shoot at you while it is preparing to charging/lumbering back/ idling at the right side of the screen. Also in these moments, as an added challenge enemy light infantry will also try to swarm you. Although when the armored elephant charges it'll trample any its way. During a charge, the archers/javelinmen cannot shoot as they are holding on for their lives.
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« Reply #189 on: December 11, 2017, 12:31:15 am »


(click for video)
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« Reply #190 on: December 12, 2017, 09:38:59 pm »



Now in gif form to not confuse the punters
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« Reply #191 on: December 12, 2017, 09:55:50 pm »

This looks awesome.  Really neat mechanics, and I'm loving dark, but contrasty colors.
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« Reply #192 on: December 12, 2017, 10:23:45 pm »

Really cool idea. Hand Thumbs Up Right
Are there going to be a bigger armies and more formations?
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