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[Captain_404]

This is an area where games lack most, I feel. So often the characters the player encounters are just thin veils disguising a tutorial or a mission objective.

Is there a way of writing for NPCs you feel is more effective than another? What are some of the more successful ones you've encountered?


Although it's not precisely a game, I felt the interactive troll bit from Andrew Hussie's Homestuck was very successful here. Probably this is due in large part to the fact that all the characters were developed entirely outside of a game world and that there really isn't much of an end goal or tutorial present. All the rules of interaction are inferred from the player's previous experience with other games. Between the characters who actually have - you know - character and the lack of any need for tutorial, I think the 'game' has space to create interesting and compelling conversations.

[Evan Balster]

I think it's important that there be NPCs who serve no game-related purpose, to flesh out the world.  I think it's important these NPCs be more than doe-eyed bits of scenery.

[floatstarpx]

I think it's important that there be NPCs who serve no game-related purpose, to flesh out the world.  I think it's important these NPCs be more than doe-eyed bits of scenery.

This is difficult though... sometimes you'll want to write in an NPC which serves no game-related purpose.. and you'll give them a back story, or whatever... but if you give them any problems ("oh, i've not got any bread left") or whatever, the player will naturally assume it's part of their objective to solve this NPC's problem! it's just something about the mentality of playing a game - you seem to assume all these characters problems are your own...

[man of doom]

I think it's important that there be NPCs who serve no game-related purpose, to flesh out the world.  I think it's important these NPCs be more than doe-eyed bits of scenery.

This is difficult though... sometimes you'll want to write in an NPC which serves no game-related purpose.. and you'll give them a back story, or whatever... but if you give them any problems ("oh, i've not got any bread left") or whatever, the player will naturally assume it's part of their objective to solve this NPC's problem! it's just something about the mentality of playing a game - you seem to assume all these characters problems are your own...

I suppose in terms of problems the NPC's could discuss you could have them refer to an objective the player should already be tasked with, or something as a whole that is going on at the time. It could give more depth to an issue the player is already engaged in.
 Or if your game is the kind where Objectives tend to pop up when there is any sort of progress or awareness regarding them, the fact this doesn't happen could clarify whether this is nice flavour text or something the player should be actively involved in.

 In all honesty I can't really think of any particularly notable NPCs I thought were very effective at the moment (literally all I can think of in terms of NPCs is Fallout 3, not the best example). I do think, as has been mentioned, that in order to provide more depth there needs to be some redundancy to their situations/opinions/general ramblings.

[floatstarpx]

I think it's important that there be NPCs who serve no game-related purpose, to flesh out the world.  I think it's important these NPCs be more than doe-eyed bits of scenery.

This is difficult though... sometimes you'll want to write in an NPC which serves no game-related purpose.. and you'll give them a back story, or whatever... but if you give them any problems ("oh, i've not got any bread left") or whatever, the player will naturally assume it's part of their objective to solve this NPC's problem! it's just something about the mentality of playing a game - you seem to assume all these characters problems are your own...

I suppose in terms of problems the NPC's could discuss you could have them refer to an objective the player should already be tasked with, or something as a whole that is going on at the time. It could give more depth to an issue the player is already engaged in.
 Or if your game is the kind where Objectives tend to pop up when there is any sort of progress or awareness regarding them, the fact this doesn't happen could clarify whether this is nice flavour text or something the player should be actively involved in.

Yeah, that's very true.. and a good way to solve that particular problem.

I guess it does just depend how strong the characters are...and often if it's a strong character, the chances of them being serving no game-related purpose is going to be slim..
I think we're definitely going to aim to have more characters hanging about the central areas in EGV2... to make everything feel more alive, and more like a living world.. but at the same time, it's a difficult balance - an impatient player will need some clue as to which NPCs are important, and which are there just for entertainment's sake.. I guess we can always put exclamation marks above their heads .....

[s0]

If you want to see superb writing for NPCs in action, play Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines. Sure, the NPCs still function mostly as quest-givers  from a mechanical standpoint, but the quests are incredibly well embedded into their dialog and their motivations for giving you certain tasks are almost always believable.

Also, thanks to the game's excellent writing and voice acting, the actual dialog sequences are genuinely enjoyable. It's pretty far removed from the "Hey random stranger, I have a problem with rats in my cellar" stuff you usually see in RPGs and it has none of "Just shut up and give me my quest already" factor.

[floatstarpx]

Yeah, that's a top game.. I got it on steam a couple of years ago, and it hooked me for days... I never finished it - I reckon I must've gotten about halfway through...maybe I'll revisit it one day if I can dig out my old saves.

I actually don't remember much about the NPCs in the game..but maybe that's a compliment to it, in a way - as I don't remember anything jarring or awkward.. - it definitely had that feel of a real place, with real people..despite being relatively sparse if you looked at it more clinically.

[Musenik]

The quality of NPCs is directly proportional to the amount of time you want to spend creating them. Good ones should have rich backstories. They should act/live in the world, instead of standing around waiting to talk to players. That said, they might pause in their 'rounds' when the PC's nearby, so she don't have to chase them down. They should also change, especially after a quest for them is completed. The change can be minor or dramatic, but they shouldn't be the same, minus that quest. Many, many, other things can make NPCs feel more real and alive.

All of that quality takes time. Plan for it.

[s0]

Good ones should have rich backstories.

I don't agree with that. They should have a believable place/role in the game world. How they got there is something the player (or even the writer) doesn't necessarily have to know.

[Musenik]

How they got there is something the player (or even the writer) doesn't necessarily have to know.

I think the writer should. It's another way of perceiving the world of your creation, if anything. More importantly, NPCs with rich backgrounds can feel more real. Everyone you know has a hundred backstories, interwoven in a way that is unique for each. More backstory helps to makes higher quality characters and a higher quality experience. But there is a cost, and sometimes you can't afford it.

[Pasty]

The quality of NPCs is directly proportional to the amount of time you want to spend creating them. Good ones should have rich backstories. They should act/live in the world, instead of standing around waiting to talk to players. That said, they might pause in their 'rounds' when the PC's nearby, so she don't have to chase them down. They should also change, especially after a quest for them is completed. The change can be minor or dramatic, but they shouldn't be the same, minus that quest. Many, many, other things can make NPCs feel more real and alive.

All of that quality takes time. Plan for it.

i agree somewhat with this sentiment. in my current project, game-related NPCs are outnumbered by ones that only contribute to the game's atmosphere by far. i prefer fleshed-out NPCs that act believable.

however (and here's my main point of disagreement) wouldn't it be wonderful if every NPC could make their rounds to the bakery, etc. and behave in a truly persistent manner? i'd give any method that makes this kind of thing easier much love.

trouble is, to achieve a persistence like this with every NPC in a game is hard, it's time-consuming, and i honestly think that it's beyond the reach of any indie developer with a broad scope when it comes to content (i.e. developers of almost all indie RPGs over two hours long). i salute anyone who brings that kind of persistence into a finished indie game with a decent amount of content.

i think a lot of indie games could benefit from an illusion of persistence instead. the game pretends that these NPCs are persistent. sometimes they're in, say, a city, and other times, they're in some other city, having "traveled" there. sometimes it's as simple as making the NPC react to new events. i think that two things are indispensable to an illusion of persistence in NPCs:

1) The NPC must change upon the discovery of new information.
2) The player character must observe that change and adjust their perspective accordingly.

it helps if your game is wired to both bring about and sustain this illusion by having your player character(s) participate in the world beyond a gameplay standpoint. i think player characters should converse with NPCs, there should be certain ones that your characters idolize and ones that they hate, your characters should argue with NPCs (and sometimes lose!), and NPCs should get definitely close to your posse in the event that you get that great idea that ties the motivations of both together.

this is where i think a lot of games that rely on NPCs (moreso commercial than indie) falter. a game that doesn't treat the NPCs and the player characters as if they live in the same world may inadvertently put the player characters on a pedestal. the players then become more important than the NPCs, so NPCs may ask you to find their pets for a couple of gold pieces, but the further away NPCs get from this role, the less important they seem. it's important for your player characters to participate in the world you're creating lest they seem too good for it.

here's an example. say an NPC is a citizen of a country and that country's leader gets thrown out of office. that's new information. adjustment of perspective comes when your character has a conversation with that NPC about what the guy did and whether it was right.

this kind of thing may bend the player's immersion a bit, but i think it will make your NPCs come across as a lot more believable.

note: i'm mostly speaking from the perspective of the JRPG, where the player character is often distanced from the player in order to make a narrative more effective. i realize that some of this stuff might not work for WRPGs and other games of the sort.

[mirosurabu]

Once you make NPC's feel alive, you have to properly integrate them within the whole picture. Unless, of course, the whole picture is a single NPC (a side-story that is only tangentially relevant to the main story) or a simulation that is not guided. Hence, making NPC's feel alive doesn't make them good automatically.

There are two problems with RPG's and open-ended games in general:

1. There are too many scenes
2. You are able to revisit any scene at any time

This is why NPC's aren't as believable as characters in linear stories. There is certainly a degree to which you want to make them feel alive, but regardless of the degree, you still have to animate a lot of scenes, unless you want to get rid of some agency (such as closing scenes). Animating scenes means animating NPC's in various contexts which means giving them tons of detail, which is a safe path to redundancy / oversaturation.

Animated scenes introduce gameplay-related issues too. For example, if you wanted to make an animated room scene with an NPC that walks around it and performs various tasks, you'd have to think of a way to make ranged interaction work well as it would be cumbersome to play "hide and seek" with an NPC whenever you need him. Further, if NPC's are animated to the point that they almost feel like they have their own lives, you'd have to make sure that NPC's never behave in a way that will make them unavailable to the player and thus ruin the gameplay, or if you do have to make them unavailable you'll have to make sure that there is a proper reason that is meaningful to gameplay or story.

[ezuk]

I’ve been replaying Baldur’s Gate 2 recently and can’t help notice how all the best NPC’s in that game are overwritten, if judged in a literary sense.  The best party members are Minsc, a ranger who’s taken a few too many shots to the head, Jaheira, the arch snob, Edmund, the wizard who’s convinced that you are a meathead, and so on.  One of my favourite characters is a druid who’s always being called a “nature boy” for having run off and pursued a life in the woods.  He comes off as a clueless hippy.

NPC’s are better with outsized personalities, the louder and more striking the better. 

The innkeeper who tells bad jokes and laughs loudly at them is a decent NPC.  The innkeeper with a long backstory about how he finally convinced his childhood sweetheart to marry him is boring.  The couple who start arguing as soon as you get near them are good NPC’s.  The ones who suffered from childhoods filled with deprivations and have now built up their lavish home to compensate for that are boring.

More Dickens than Proust, in other words.  A flat vigorous character is better than a round one.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

my advice: to write for npcs, find a writer; don't let a programmer write for your game, even if he's you

you wouldn't want programmer art, right? so why use programmer writing? yet programmer writing is what we get, even in AAA games, and it's a disgrace

the issue of backstories or proust vs dickens is besides the point, if you could write either like proust or dickens you'd be fine, even if you could write like king or rowling you'd be fine, but you can't, and even getting to the point where you write as good as the average bad fantasy novelist takes decades, so use someone whose primary focus is writing, someone who spent years honing his or her writing and writes professionally, not someone who takes it on as a hobby or side issue

i hate to use my own example but take immortal defense; its story has probably been praised more in reviews than the story of any other indie game that i know of, and it used someone who is a writer by profession to write its story (my friend wynand), i don't think this is a coincidence

note that i'm not saying it's impossible to have good writing without a writer (there are games with pretty neat stories that were written by people who don't write very much and have no training in writing, just as there are games with great graphics that were drawn by people who don't draw very much and have no training in art), just that it's highly unlikely and not reliable.

if you really want to do it yourself, just copy and do variations of what has worked in other games (e.g. think of some of your favorite npc dialogue and adapt it to your game), that way you will at least avoid total disaster. for instance, if i were writing for an npc myself, i'd think of, say, that kid at the start of ff4j who says cecil looks cool and he wants to be a dark knight when he grows up (which has added impact because cecil just did a kinda disgraceful thing by killing innocents, which makes the player feel even worse because the kid doesn't know what he's looking up to); that could easily be adapted to a different game or situation, any time you have a player who did a bad thing on orders, you can have some kid look up to that player somehow. you wouldn't use the same words as in ff4j, you'd vary it, maybe extend it by having the kid asking his parents for money to buy clothes similar to yours, but you'd take the basic idea.

[thecatamites]

I think that when they don't have a big part in the story it's better to write NPCs collectively in a sense. In terms of the overall effect the whole bunch taken together have on the atmosphere of a place or what you want the player to learn, rather than just making a bunch of fleshed-out individual characters that don't necessarily cohere to anything. I don't know I think they should be used to suggest or evoke life complexity etc rather than just being overloaded with pointless details. I guess this is sorta based on the jrpg village model though.

[Sir Raptor]

I'd say one example of NPC dialogue writing that's stuck with me was from the characters in Shantae: Risky's Revenge. There was only one area in the entire game with real NPCs, and whenever you collected a new Macguffin, they'd have a new comment to say. These comments would range from "hey, this weapon is pretty useful" to "I ate a monkey once," and my personal favorite, "my mommy dresses up as the pirate lady for daddy." Humor, for me, is an important part for games.

[klembot]

To me the hard, unsolvable part is those NPCs that don't really have much to do with the game but need to be around so that a town doesn't feel totally empty. It feels weird to not get anything out of trying to talk to them, but it also feels totally shallow for them to have something really nondescript and repetitive to say. I don't know, IF has a tradition where you can just say, "that isn't important" when you try to interact with something that isn't going to do anything, and people will just accept that as given.

[BlueSweatshirt]

I've only skimmed; forgive me if it was mentioned.

But, keep the game's setting in mind.

Obviously, in most game worlds which parallel ours,(at whatever which time period) it doesn't make sense to be able to walk up to someone and have them spill a 2-paragraph monologue at you. That does not happen often in our world.

I think the key is harmony-- Making the way the NPCs act and behave be proper in context to the world. The way they talk, look, react, etc.
One example of a perfect execution of this is GTA. People react like you'd expect them to, and it makes sense. It's a rather unimaginitive execution, obviously, but it's so effective it really gives the game character.

That's all!