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TIGSource ForumsCommunityJams & EventsCompetitionsOld CompetitionsProcedural GenerationProcedural Generation Competition
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Author Topic: Procedural Generation Competition  (Read 149848 times)
Ed
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« Reply #200 on: June 06, 2008, 06:45:39 AM »

Bezzy, exactly. It just seems inappropriate for (some) stuff to be up there, and to be given a "user rating". I wouldn't care about the score either, if there was a reasonable review to go with it. And maybe if it was after the real voting. Just seems like fairly wrong behaviour, but then I'm new to this indie dev lark.

[Edit for self-moderation of excessive rudeness]
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 09:18:43 AM by shrimp » Logged

Sciere
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« Reply #201 on: June 06, 2008, 08:40:54 AM »

I registered to clear up some stuff in the entry (and bump my score aggressively, of course  Cool)

I dunno. I don't mind it being there, but it's presented like it's a final game or something. Who expects a prototype to get reviewed in the same breath as a final game? Feels a bit unfair, really.

Hey, I should clear up some things I believe. MobyGames attempts to document all electronic games known in history. This means, next to commercial releases, I also add a lot of hobby projects and independently developed games to the site, mostly to balance out the many commercial releases. This is done on a voluntary basis, contributors do not get paid in any way - it is a collaborative project of game fans. I've done the same for the VGNG compo and most indie games in general. The site has a huge amount of daily traffic with many known developers contributing, and not being a designer, it is my way of giving exposure to titles that I feel passionate about.

The descriptions are not in any way meant to be a review of the game. There is an option to add user reviews, but I simply can't devote time to reviews and descriptions are not supposed to have subjective elements. You'll notice they are written objectively and in the third person. Generally, we do not add beta versions or demos to the site, but a lot of the titles in the compo appear to be considered "prototypes" of which the finished state is somewhat unclear. A lot of indie games are constantly being reworked, so it is somewhat hard to tell when the game is "finished" and meant for public viewing. I would not add Gesundheit for instance because the developer clearly only has released a demo of the game. If you believe your game should be considered a demo/beta and not a finished product meant for public viewing - just message me and I'll have it removed. It's just that there are so many new games every day, and some things are eventually forgotten, MobyGames can be one of places where history is preserved, even if a game was released but eventually not tuned to perfection.

As for the ratings, these are personal ratings of the visitors of the site. In addition to user ratings, the MobyRanks are used as "official" ratings by magazines and major internet review outlets. I rated the games in the state I played them, but also based on the potential. I'm not going to punish a game ratings-wise because of the time constraints in development time for the compo, but rather focus on the general game mechanics and potential. This is an individual choice of each user of course. Games can be re-rated, and I actually liked all the games I added, otherwise I wouldn't have done the effort to add them in the first place (next to playing it takes about an hour to add an entry).

I'm glad you found out how to revise the description. By all means do, the site is meant as a collaborative effort of volunteers, and taking a look at entries such as http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/100-in-one-klik-play-pirate-kart or http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/aquaria, you'll see games are added in the best intentions, with a custom description not using "official" or "copyrighted" blurbs, as a way to give as much exposure to them as possible. Keep in mind the description can be revised at any time and additional/replacements screenshots can be submitted - this is actually quite common.

Also, on a personal note, I edit a monthly indie section in a European paper press magazine. I've written a feature about VGNG in the past (mailed a scan to Derek once, don't know if he ever got it), and I intend to do the same for the PG competition in the next issue, so in no way do I intend to tick off anyone involved, instead I applaud your collaborative creativity.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 09:20:44 AM by Sciere » Logged
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« Reply #202 on: June 06, 2008, 09:30:54 AM »

Sciere, you need to understand that everything you see here is strictly confidential and cannot be discussed with the outside world until you've introduced yourself.

Anyway, you sound like a nice enough gent. It might have been a better idea to wait until the judging was finished, though, just so that there's more finality about the games.

Well done for writing about VGNG Smiley
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Ed
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« Reply #203 on: June 06, 2008, 09:36:55 AM »

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I'm a bit less angry now. I was quite pleased to see the MobyGames entry initially, and the screenshots and description were very well done.

However, I would certainly appreciate it being delisted for now, at least until the first update. I guess I could have been clearer about it not being considered a properly finished game, but I was hoping the rough title screen might drop a subtle hint in that direction.

Obviously everything uploaded becomes public domain, but it does seem pretty out of order to jump in before the competition is really over (as Corpus has just said).

Jeez, I'm such a whiner.
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Sciere
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« Reply #204 on: June 06, 2008, 09:42:57 AM »

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I'm a bit less angry now. I was quite pleased to see the MobyGames entry initially, and the screenshots and description were very well done.

However, I would certainly appreciate it being delisted for now, at least until the first update. I guess I could have been clearer about it not being considered a properly finished game, but I was hoping the rough title screen might drop a subtle hint in that direction.

Obviously everything uploaded becomes public domain, but it does seem pretty out of order to jump in before the competition is really over (as Corpus has just said).

Jeez, I'm such a whiner.

No sweat! I've removed the game. I guess I misinterpreted the competition's deadline as how the projects are considered finished.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 09:45:11 AM by Sciere » Logged
Zaphos
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« Reply #205 on: June 06, 2008, 09:45:25 AM »

Obviously everything uploaded becomes public domain
... I think you just mean 'public,' not public domain!
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Ed
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« Reply #206 on: June 06, 2008, 10:05:03 AM »

Sure it's "in" the public domain, like photos of Britney Spears with her nipple showing. Smiley

Is it Public Domain software? I don't know. Has anyone shipped a license agreement with their entry?
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Sciere
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« Reply #207 on: June 06, 2008, 10:10:49 AM »

MMORPG Tycoon is GPLv3.
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joshg
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« Reply #208 on: June 06, 2008, 10:22:24 AM »

Congrats to everyone who completed a game!  I was quietly working on something but got too ambitious and didn't have enough attention span time to complete it.  I'll hang onto it and maybe revisit it in the future. 

Probably I shouldn't have bothered working on the actual game engine stuff and just messed around with PG pixel art, which is what I was really interested in.  But then I got all distracted setting up layers and panning and whatever and didn't actually get around to making the dudes look cool.  Roll Eyes  Tongue

p.s. Is anyone going to compile a big huge download of all the games?  Because that would make me very happy.
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Terry
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« Reply #209 on: June 06, 2008, 10:38:29 AM »

p.s. Is anyone going to compile a big huge download of all the games?  Because that would make me very happy.

I was gonna do whenever they're all collected together. Lots of people are still making minor updates atm, though Smiley
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increpare
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« Reply #210 on: June 06, 2008, 10:49:13 AM »

p.s. Is anyone going to compile a big huge download of all the games?  Because that would make me very happy.
I was just going to ask that myself.  Terry's answer seems reasonable.
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Bezzy
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« Reply #211 on: June 06, 2008, 11:05:13 AM »

Sciere, thanks for the response.

As I said before, I don't particularly mind it being there... I just found the attention a bit confusing, because I had assumed that moby games was about finished games which were available to buy, rather than freeware/hobbyist stuff. But you've cleared that up. Don't bother taking it down, I guess, because I fully intend to develop it further, but slowly. Might as well be up there, if having a big catalog of all games ever is the point of it.

However: 3.6? Damn Sad. You hurt my feeling!

I think I rediscovered the reason why nothing of mine ever gets released: the ratings cut deeper than I am willing to admit  Cry.
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Sciere
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« Reply #212 on: June 06, 2008, 11:10:13 AM »

I think I rediscovered the reason why nothing of mine ever gets released: the ratings cut deeper than I am willing to admit  Cry.

Aw, come on, why would you be bothered by the ratings of a random internet idiot. Played it, liked it, wrote about it! And as you say to develop it further, there is room for re-rating  Wink
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 11:12:14 AM by Sciere » Logged
Zaphos
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« Reply #213 on: June 06, 2008, 11:28:42 AM »

And the score was something like 3.6 before I bumped it. Probably all it deserved. Out of ten.
The scores are out of 5, not 10.  3.6/5 isn't that bad ...
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Melly
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« Reply #214 on: June 06, 2008, 11:33:38 AM »

It felt odd to have Minus up there too. The description is also off, as the health gauge has been removed, and the game's not finished per-se, though the competition entry is. If it wouldn't be too much trouble Sciere could you edit the description just removing the fact that there is health? You might want to play the latest version. If you can't get around to it I'll eventually do so myself, just kinda busy. Tongue
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Sciere
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« Reply #215 on: June 06, 2008, 11:52:58 AM »

Sure, it's been revised  Grin
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mewse
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« Reply #216 on: June 06, 2008, 05:03:14 PM »

MMORPG Tycoon is GPLv3.

It's actually not. 

After a fairly exhaustive search, I've finally found that the old 'About' section of my website implied that everything on the site is released as GPLv3, which is no longer the case;  I've now revised that page.  But I had intentionally removed all of my usual GPLv3 notices from the credits and readme files for MMORPG Tycoon, and the source code for the game itself has never actually been made available.

But based on that old 'About VectoStorm' page, I can understand why you'd make this mistake.  My fault.


(The VectorStorm game engine that MMORPG Tycoon is built upon is still available under the GPLv3 license, as well as all of my "Game in a Week" games.)
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Alex May
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« Reply #217 on: June 07, 2008, 01:20:31 AM »

 Cave Story
 Evil
 Beer!
 Tired
 Gentleman

hm where was I

ah yeah, see the trouble you've caused Sciere with your mobypoints whoring!!!! my god man will you never rest!!!  Gentleman
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Sciere
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« Reply #218 on: June 07, 2008, 03:32:46 AM »

By all means, move along! I'm already typing this out of a hole in my backyard where I have been hiding since yesterday.  Tired
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Bezzy
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« Reply #219 on: June 07, 2008, 07:43:58 AM »

<Bezzy> OUCH!
<Bezzy> my mobygames rating just got down-bumped to 2.9
<Bezzy> which of you fuckers...
<Bezzy> HA HA HA
<jstckr> Sad
<Bezzy> I'm not going to hurt you
<Bezzy> c'mon! fess up!
<Bezzy> we can have a jolly nice laugh about it
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