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TIGSource ForumsCommunityJams & EventsCompetitionsVersus (Moderator: Melly)Guardian Soul
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HDSanctum
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« Reply #80 on: March 04, 2011, 10:51:04 PM »

Don't beat yourself up Melly, it's too easy to to caught by a deadline. I am interested in helping this project if I can, although I currently have zero experience in flash dev  Undecided
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Melly
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« Reply #81 on: March 05, 2011, 12:46:02 AM »

I'm going to keep working on this:



Will update this thread until the voting is over, then I'll link to a devlog.
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« Reply #82 on: March 05, 2011, 12:52:36 AM »

Looking forward to the devlog  Corny Laugh
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« Reply #83 on: March 05, 2011, 01:58:11 AM »

That's some truly spectacular artwork  Shocked
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« Reply #84 on: March 05, 2011, 09:45:00 AM »

If you're continuing development... are you going to get the other musicians to finish their tracks?

If not, I could help with the soundtrack. :D
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« Reply #85 on: March 05, 2011, 10:54:12 AM »

I'll see. You'll probably have a bigger share of the soundtrack to do this time. But I'm planning on this game being profitable somehow, now that it won't be for the compo.
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« Reply #86 on: March 05, 2011, 06:05:22 PM »

I'll see. You'll probably have a bigger share of the soundtrack to do this time. But I'm planning on this game being profitable somehow, now that it won't be for the compo.

As long as if I help there's some sort of back and forth there it's all good. I'm okay with profit.
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« Reply #87 on: March 05, 2011, 06:25:35 PM »

I'll see. You'll probably have a bigger share of the soundtrack to do this time. But I'm planning on this game being profitable somehow, now that it won't be for the compo.

As long as if I help there's some sort of back and forth there it's all good. I'm okay with profit.
lol who isn't Tongue


Glad to see you decided to work on this more, Melly. I really think the concept has tons of potential. Really looking forward to this, guys!
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« Reply #88 on: March 06, 2011, 04:43:24 AM »

Also, Mecha, anosou and soundofjw, which one of your should I send the track descriptions to?

If you could send an e-mail to multiple addresses that'd be great:
mattias [at] anosou [dot] com
chris.t.geehan [at] gmail [dot] com
josh [at] jwmusic [dot] org

We have means to discuss it all together once the e-mail arrives  Gentleman

Ah, too lazy, I'll send you three PM's.

EDIT: PM's sent.

lol didnt see this.

shojin's last reply got me wondering how you were treating the project. haha this is all too familiar. "All or nothing" I've found is the solution 
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Melly
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« Reply #89 on: March 09, 2011, 12:56:17 PM »

Stil working on it~ I'll show things to you all when I have soemthing nice. I wanna wow people a little more.

However, the main reason for this post is to ask a question.

I've been wanting to make games for a living for a while, and my plan for Guardian Soul was always for it to eventually have a more complete and polished version for sale someday after the compo (a more polished and blanced version of whatever I posted at the compo would eventually become the demo for it).

That's still the plan, but I'm thinking of doing something a little different. The game itself, with 1 or 2 bosses, is completely free. Then I'll be making new bosses after that, and you can download them for small prices (one dollar each is the plan right now).

I was wondering what you guys think of that idea. I know it would be cooler for everything of it to be totally free of charge, but like I said, I don't want to suffer through a boring dayjob to pay my bills, I want to spend all that time making awesome games, and I have to start somewhere.

I'm also thinking of changing the name to Guardian Spirit, because I found out there's already an iOS game named Guardian Soul.
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« Reply #90 on: March 09, 2011, 01:06:53 PM »

Depending on how long you think it's going to take you to finish the free version, you could always try kickstarting it.

Or you could work on making one boss and put that up as a standalone on Kongregate or something, and keep working on more bosses and releasing them individually (if you make the bosses somewhat complex to defeat, like in Shadow of the Colossus, they might warrant singular releases like that). Once you have a few, you might then create a free android/iPhone version, with additional bosses as microtrans, as you already pointed out. Depending on the amount of gameplay, complexity, and amount of explorable space with each boss (design space: different tactics, different ways of beating the boss, etc, not physical explorable space) $1 per boss might be warranted, but some people might think it's a tad steep. Perhaps you can release additional 'Boss Packs' with 2-3 bosses for $1. The exact details are up to you.

I'm happy to see you're still working on this, one way or another!  Hand Thumbs Up Left
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« Reply #91 on: March 09, 2011, 01:10:36 PM »

The main issue I see with a per-boss transaction system is that, prior to purchase, the player doesn't have a way of knowing how to use that boss/if it fits their playing style/is it fun. For example, I wouldn't want to pay money to unlock Chun Li just to find out I hate her playing style. If you can find a way around that, like a try before you buy system or something so the player is informed as to what they are buying, it'll better serve the player.

Just to toss out an idea, how about a system where the player can unlock all the bosses in-game (by grinding or some kind of time-sink system), but the player can pay a small fee to instantly unlock everything?
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« Reply #92 on: March 09, 2011, 01:21:09 PM »

The focus of the game is still in the multiplayer, one player as the boss and the other as the hero. Bosses are planned to all be fairly elaborate. Buying the boss would give you the ability to play both with it and against it. I'll have to make sure that's very obvious in whatever marketing I do, since I feel that kinda doubles the value of the boss.

The plan is also to go all mega man up in this and have the hero being able to collect abilities from defeated bosses. So buying a boss also buys you a new ability for the hero.

'Try before you buy' can work, and I agree it's a good idea to give people a chance to see if they'd really like to have a new specific boss. Not entirely sure how I'd accomplish that, but it's something to keep in mind.

I honestly don't like the idea that all the bosses are unlockable, but can also be instantly bought. First, I hate repetitive grinding. It's an artificial way to extend a game's lifetime, it has you trade too much of your precious time for in-game stuff instead of skill, and have that time not advance anything else. Second, I don't like the idea that you can either buy something to get it instantly but you can also get it for free with some work. If I make people work for getting something, I'll feel compelled to make that work worthwhile. If I let people also cheat their way through with money, I'm undermining my own effort and design, and they're undermining the experience they could have with the game.
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« Reply #93 on: March 09, 2011, 01:35:43 PM »

Second, I don't like the idea that you can either buy something to get it instantly but you can also get it for free with some work. If I make people work for getting something, I'll feel compelled to make that work worthwhile. If I let people also cheat their way through with money, I'm undermining my own effort and design, and they're undermining the experience they could have with the game.

I can understand why this idea leaves a bad taste in your mouth, but (putting my commercial designer hat on for a moment) I can tell you from experience that it works financially (or has for where I work anyway). People are more than happy to pay money to bypass the grind if the perceived value is great enough. Moreso if the base game is free. This is one of the keys of social games.

Just thought I'd point out my experiences in case anyone else can benefit from it. It can be tough as a designer to create a system intended to make things tougher for the player, but if your goals skew more toward financial success than critical, it can be useful. My 2 cents.
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« Reply #94 on: March 09, 2011, 01:51:35 PM »

While I want to be successful financially, I don't want it to be at the cost of the game's design. While just making a game with the intent of selling any part of it already changes your mentality toward its development, I want to limit it to "make it polished and balanced so people will actually want to pay money for it and not just download it as a curiosity", and not have it extend much beyond that.

That suggestion kinda reminds me of how free mmo's tend to work. I've read about them, and how the design works in there. It's entirely built around profit, built around exploiting logical fallacies, emotions and social interactions to get the most people in the game and as many of them spending as possible.

I'm not saying that this is what you're suggesting I do. I'm just saying that I don't want to have anything close to that mentality. Doing so would go against everything that made me love this medium in the first place.
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« Reply #95 on: March 09, 2011, 01:59:45 PM »

I understand what you're saying Smiley

Having to think like that at work is what got me into indie development in the first place, so I could think more about engaging the player instead of exploiting them.
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« Reply #96 on: March 09, 2011, 03:38:54 PM »

TF2 has a pay-to-get-it-faster system, although I don't think the system would work as well with an indie game.
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« Reply #97 on: March 09, 2011, 04:10:37 PM »

IMO, pay-to-play wouldn't work unless people got a good dose of the core gameplay and want more. So, buy the game, fight 10 bosses and have to buy new, harder ones = OK, but having to buy each boss one by one = not OK.
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« Reply #98 on: March 09, 2011, 04:59:06 PM »

Sounds like a really cool financial model, man.


Why not make it so you can play against the boss even without owning it? After beating it you get the message "BUY NOW BLABLA" and DONT get the Megaman-ish item. But you can buy the boss now to unlock the item and play as that boss!


Its a lot like when you unlock achievments in Xbox Live Arcade games.


"HEY MAN GOOD JOB. But if you want to keep that achievement and not lose your awesome progress, you better BUY THE FULL VERSION BEFORE YOU END THE GAME."


This way, you can see the boss and his attacks, see what weapon you would unlock, but to play as the boss or with his weapon, you buy it.
If its cheap, this should work for impulse buys.
Imagine you tried to beat this boss like 20 times in a row now, and if you buy it NOW, you get to keep that weapon you worked so hard for.

Also, you can see his attacks and think "hmm, this looks like it could be fun".



Profit?  Hand Money Left
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HDSanctum
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« Reply #99 on: March 09, 2011, 05:46:50 PM »

I was going to suggest the same thing Huh? as battlerager.

On another note, you should think about player psychology if you want to pay your bills. To me, pay $1 to extend gameplay is not good, I feel like I am being fleeced before I even start playing. But pay for a new character is A-OK. Perceived value is important.


Edit: lol oops @ random smiley
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