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TIGSource ForumsCommunityJams & EventsCompetitionsOld CompetitionsProcedural GenerationRescue: The Beagles [FINISHED-BETA]
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Author Topic: Rescue: The Beagles [FINISHED-BETA]  (Read 125005 times)
Melly
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« Reply #80 on: June 03, 2008, 07:56:26 AM »

My best is level 5.

I keep misjudging jumps and height and dying. Cry But it's all my fault. Haven't run into any bugs.

Once again, awesome game, and I'll keep your design concepts in mind.
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nenad
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« Reply #81 on: June 03, 2008, 08:30:27 AM »

Level 5 is pretty good.
Here's a hint Melly. It's a regular tile based system (see attached image). You can survive falling from about one and a half tile height. Jumping one tile down is safe. Going two tiles - you die. There's a gray zone inbetween. You'll need to get the feeling for it by a little bit of practice.
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Melly
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« Reply #82 on: June 03, 2008, 09:08:56 AM »

Yeah, I figured as much. Just in the heat of things I tend to screw up. Tongue Thanks a lot for the tips though.
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X-Tender
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« Reply #83 on: June 03, 2008, 09:41:35 AM »

I .. LOVE .. THIS .. GAME!
Really nice work! Wink

Had some starting problems, didn't knew how to Open the Parachute, but then .. =o)
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AdamButcher
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« Reply #84 on: June 03, 2008, 10:04:49 AM »

This is a superb game- excellent gameplay, sound and graphics. And original! And in two weeks!

Still, some possible improvements for the final version:

1) It's hard to tell whether a badguy or lip balm is going to hurt you if you bump into it but are not on the same layer as it. Sometimes things do kill me, sometimes not. It's fine picking up beagles and items when they're on a different plane, but getting killed by perspective confusion is annoying.

2) The death-from-falling can be a little harsh at times. Like when I quickly drop down to another layer (eg. the peak of a triangle), I think I've already landed and so start moving left or right, but actually IM STILL FALLING and so die when I hit the bottom of the hill.

3) Some way of getting more lives perhaps? The difficulty is really good, but I feel like I may never see all the badguys at this rate. If I got a life every five levels I think that would enable your average player to see more, but still feel under pressure. Or if you rewarded score quotas with extra lives, that would give you more reason to kill things/heal puppies.

Great stuff really though. Well done.
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nenad
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« Reply #85 on: June 03, 2008, 11:19:56 AM »

1) It's hard to tell whether a badguy or lip balm is going to hurt you if you bump into it but are not on the same layer as it. Sometimes things do kill me, sometimes not. It's fine picking up beagles and items when they're on a different plane, but getting killed by perspective confusion is annoying.

The collision is pure 2d. It always happens on the screen plane, no matter what the  illusion of depth is. If it overlaps - it's collided. This is intentional of course. I tried several combinations and this one was the least confusing.

2) The death-from-falling can be a little harsh at times. Like when I quickly drop down to another layer (eg. the peak of a triangle), I think I've already landed and so start moving left or right, but actually IM STILL FALLING and so die when I hit the bottom of the hill.

Happens to me too. The only way I could fix it is to slow down the player a bit which I probably won't do because it'd call for complete re-balance of other parameters and who knows how many days of additional testing Lips Sealed

3) Some way of getting more lives perhaps? The difficulty is really good, but I feel like I may never see all the badguys at this rate. If I got a life every five levels I think that would enable your average player to see more, but still feel under pressure. Or if you rewarded score quotas with extra lives, that would give you more reason to kill things/heal puppies.

I think I'll add an extra life every 25000 points. And also some bonuses for the strong play like killing all the enemies on the level.

If you endure as far as level 7 there's a fair chance you'll see all the enemies in game.

Great feedback! Thanks.

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shrimp
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« Reply #86 on: June 03, 2008, 02:25:08 PM »

Lovely stuff!! Level generation is fantastic, and the Sentinel/River Raid vibe really shows IMO

This really lived up to my high expectations from the early descriptions and preview screens! (except the difficulty... that surpassed my expectations  Cry  I really wish there was an easy mode)

I'd be interested to play a version with the collision on separate depth layers.
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Melly
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« Reply #87 on: June 03, 2008, 02:45:34 PM »

I'd be interested to play a version with the collision on separate depth layers.

Personally, I feel that'd make things too confusing on the heat of the action.
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Friendly Rhinoceros
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« Reply #88 on: June 03, 2008, 05:30:58 PM »

My brother and I played this quite literally all day, trading off games, so I have to post and say thanks.  It's really fantastic, and very impressive that you pulled it off in less than a month with so much polish!  Balancing is always the hardest part for me, but you nailed it here.  We want to know when it'll be on XBLA Smiley
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BobFM
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« Reply #89 on: June 03, 2008, 07:12:35 PM »

Doggone, this is a good game. I've gotten up to something like 95 beagles so far.
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Daniel Benmergui
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« Reply #90 on: June 03, 2008, 09:02:39 PM »

It's been a little frustrating to me...I think the idea of having to deal with several depth layers at the time is novel and I like it. But I'm probably too old to tolerate the difficulty for long Smiley. The art is very nice...but I had a little trouble interpreting it sometimes. I wish I knew what is it.
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Daniel.
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nenad
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« Reply #91 on: June 03, 2008, 11:38:01 PM »

I'd be interested to play a version with the collision on separate depth layers.

Personally, I feel that'd make things too confusing on the heat of the action.

Trust me, it'd be confusing as hell. I've tried it. At first it doesn't seem problematic if you only envision walking on different layers. However transition/jumping between layers in critical situations is feeling really awkward. There's a problem defining *when* actually the switch happens during the jump.

Let's say that layer is switched as soon as player hits the ground. Now, if you for instance jump down directly at the enemy, you'd go all the way through him and die because of the collision only after you've reached the ground. Pretty un-intuitive.
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nenad
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« Reply #92 on: June 03, 2008, 11:41:05 PM »

We want to know when it'll be on XBLA Smiley

As soon as general public show enough interest Smiley
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shrimp
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« Reply #93 on: June 03, 2008, 11:44:57 PM »

I'd be interested to play a version with the collision on separate depth layers.

Personally, I feel that'd make things too confusing on the heat of the action.

Trust me, it'd be confusing as hell. I've tried it. At first it doesn't seem problematic if you only envision walking on different layers. However transition/jumping between layers in critical situations is feeling really awkward. There's a problem defining *when* actually the switch happens during the jump.

Let's say that layer is switched as soon as player hits the ground. Now, if you for instance jump down directly at the enemy, you'd go all the way through him and die because of the collision only after you've reached the ground. Pretty un-intuitive.

Yep, you're right of course. Also once you're used to it, it's really not hard to deal with.
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nenad
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« Reply #94 on: June 03, 2008, 11:53:11 PM »

It's been a little frustrating to me...I think the idea of having to deal with several depth layers at the time is novel and I like it. But I'm probably too old to tolerate the difficulty for long Smiley. The art is very nice...but I had a little trouble interpreting it sometimes. I wish I knew what is it.

From the initial idea I wanted to make this kinda arcade-grade-challenging but still enjoyable. Imo, making it easier would have just prolonged the play time and diminished the tension.

In the first incarnations of the game you didn't have to collect all of the dogs. You could just let them go by. But then I realized that I constantly play in a way to want to catch all of them. Some people who tested the game didn't play it quite that way. They'd just walk right through the level leaving the dogs behind. It's easier that way, of course, but not juicy enough. So I opted for the current mechanics to force people to play it as I intuitively did in the first place. Besides, it's a right thing to save all of the doggies Smiley
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 12:07:12 AM by nenad » Logged
Golds
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« Reply #95 on: June 04, 2008, 12:16:00 AM »

an extra life every 100 beagles or something would be sweet.   Cry
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nenad
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« Reply #96 on: June 04, 2008, 12:43:40 AM »

an extra life every 100 beagles or something would be sweet.   Cry

Worry not, it's coming Wink
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MekanikDestructiwKommando
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« Reply #97 on: June 04, 2008, 01:20:38 AM »

Your coding skills impress me! I've never seen triple scrolling layers before -- and it affects the game. I like this game!
I suggest a panic sprite just before you need to activate the parachute -- a bit tricky figuring out how far you can fall  Shocked
Nevermind, figured it out. And running over a slope then falling to your death is Sad
Also suggestion: hit a beagle with a bat and it becomes wounded? Oh.. guess that would promote beagle abuse as you hit them for extra points :p

(why does a manbaby and a soundtrack have the same name..?)

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« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 01:42:45 AM by MekanikDestructiwKommando » Logged

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MekanikDestructiwKommando
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« Reply #98 on: June 04, 2008, 01:43:31 AM »

Markov chain.. translation of wikipedia please?  Shocked
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« Reply #99 on: June 04, 2008, 02:07:30 AM »

Markov chain.. translation of wikipedia please?  Shocked

As tempting as it is to paste in the Wikipedia article run through automated translation into Swahili or something...

Basically, you can think of a Markov chain as a state machine, with each state-to-state transition given a probability. So you might have a set of three states - A, B and C - which have the following probabilities for transitions:

A->B 80%
A->C 20%
B->A 50%
B->C 50%
C->C 20%
C->B 80%

Where - for example - if you're in state A, there's an 80% chance you'll move to B next, and a 20% chance you'll move to C. Note it's also quite possible to have a transition from an item to itself, e.g. C has a 20% chance of moving back to C.

Then, you can generate a series of items out of the Markov chain by doing a random test for each step. So we might get:

A (random: 73) -> B (random: 54) -> C (random: 12) -> C (random:49) -> B (random: 32) -> A

You can use this to generate all kinds of linear things in a patterned/structured manner, which makes them great for things like platformer level construction. Say you have four level components, a ramp up, a ramp down, a low bit of land and a high bit of land; if you just pick randomly from the list, you're likely to get all kind of weird-looking geometry, like a ramp up immediately following a ramp up, looking like sawteeth. On the other hand, you can construct a Markov chain, so that , say:

low ground -> low ground (70%)
low ground -> ramp up (30%)
ramp up -> high ground (70%)
ramp up -> ramp down (30%)
high ground -> high ground (70%)
high ground -> ramp down (30%)
ramp down -> low ground (70%)
ramp down -> ramp up (30%)

- like this, you'll still get a randomly-varying level, but the ground height won't have any sudden discontinuities in it (unless you add some discontinuous transitions to your chain, which you might want to do).




Also: Bloody hell. I just looked at the Wikipedia article to see what was so hard to understand about such a simple concept, and... that is probably the most impenetrable article I've read all week! Yay Wikipedia! ;-)
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