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[TheLastBanana]

I only emulate games that I can't find anymore, or that I already own, and only then if they're fairly old.
Going back to the mug analogy that Paul Eres mentioned, this is my logic:
Quite a while ago, a friend sold me a mug on the condition that I can't drink orange juice out of it. Years later, I'd like to use the mug again, but all I have to drink is orange juice. My friend, who I might not even have talked to for a long time, calls me up and says "hey, I'll let you drink orange juice from that mug, but you have to pay me again". On top of that, considering restrictions to certain systems or DRM, he also says I can only drink his special brand of orange juice, and if I'd like to try another brand, I'll have to pay for the mug yet again.
Now, I get that this logic is flawed in a lot of ways, and that your original analogy was about the wishes of the game developers and not the company itself, but that's just how I see it.

EDIT: Oh, and, as Glaiel-Gamer mentioned, ROMs are also nice for getting screenshots. I can't imagine any developer who would be upset by somebody getting a screenshot of their game to show others.

[Core Xii]

imo there are no ethical problems with ROMs, but they are bad because you aren't getting the authentic console experience. Playing an SNES game isn't nearly as good (to me at least) as playing it on an actual SNES.

I don't know, emulation can be pretty accurate. There's also USB SNES controllers. I don't get the authenticity argument - that's exactly what emulators are emulating.

but it would still be unethical to *agree* to not use the mug for orange juice, take the mug, and then use it for orange juice.

How many people actually agree to EULAs? People just click next without reading. I would take the mug and dismiss such a ridiculous restriction. If my friend pulled stupid shit like that he doesn't deserve to be my friend - just like all these game developers.

Sure, nothing physical has been displaced, so I guess maybe you could argue it's not larceny? I don't know how much of a distinction there is between the two. But either way, value has been lost.

If you make a copy of a digital good, value isn't lost, it's gained. The more people share and copy, the more value the work gets. Meanwhile, the price of a digital good is effectively zero.

You don't pay for a product, because the product costs nothing to copy. You pay for the service, supporting the developer to make more.

Hence there's nothing unethical about "pirating" or ROMs because the work has already been done; The product itself costs nothing to copy and the only thing you should be "buying" is more of the same.

Has anyone ever met someone that worked at a game company that was cool with you pirating that game? Working at a game company during crunch is hell. Seeing it get pirated right after that is a smack in the sleep deprived, malnutritioned game dev's face.

...Is that the pirate's fault, or the game company's for treating its employees badly?



I've already invested lots of money into a beefy PC; I'm not going to buy a Wii just to play Nintendo's games. If they can't be assed to port their games onto other platforms that's their fault, not mine. The games have already been created, so if I pirate and emulate them, nothing of value is lost. Quite the contrary, it's free advertisement for Nintendo when they finally do port their games.

[Kramlack]

Why are ROMs bad?

Most old games aren't being manufactured anymore, so I fail to see how it's 'bad'. Case in point, if someone can tell me where to buy a legitimate copy of Metal Gear Solid Ghost Babel (GBC), where the money goes to Konami, the developers, I'll stop using the rom. Until then, no dice.

Pirating current gen software is a problem, but I won't go into that since it's a completely different can of worms.

[Nitromatic]

I think they're useful if there is some game that can't be bought or game that wasn't offically translated.

Nuff' said, for me.

[Player 3]

Where else can one find old software that's no longer even sold in stores or even cheaply acquired on eBay? Those ROM sites, bub. Plus in my beliefs, it gives me (mostly) a chance to experience what's been done and what made a game popular besides licensing and name branding. Illegal stealing is a little harsh, don'cha think? I prefer to think of it as "inspirations."

From that time, I've realized that the SNES mostly consisted of games with famous name brands and a lot of generic things, while the SMS just has cooler games. Do you honestly blame Japan and Europe for liking it more?

[gimymblert]

MUG ANALOGY:
The reason the company don't want you to drink orange in their coffee mug is to sell you the exactly the same mug with a label for orange. You can't drink any other liquid except if it's label. TO drink a large variety of liquid you need the corresponding mug. Not doing so will kill job that manufacture all these mug obviously wait!
They are not as ethical as people who use coffee mug do drink whatever.

On ROM
The problem is that most of the time the company don't care about the experience, they care about the money. Playing sonic 2, 3 and K on VC or in any official port is a lesser experience than a rom. Rom also provide additional service unseen in official support (hack, graphical amelioration, save state, etc...).

ON information goods value:
Sharing information good does not increase their value, it decrease it. Value can be define by WANT*SCARCITY, the more an info is share, the less value it have. It's not theft per see, but there is an inflation.

[Superb Joe]

Has anyone ever met someone that worked at a game company that was cool with you pirating that game? Working at a game company during crunch is hell. Seeing it get pirated right after that is a smack in the sleep deprived, malnutritioned game dev's face. Year's after the devastation of completing said game, perhaps they won't care as much?

it was cool when it turned out the crytek people were using pirated software. very indie if you ask me.

[s0]

On ROM
The problem is that most of the time the company don't care about the experience, they care about the money. Playing sonic 2, 3 and K on VC or in any official port is a lesser experience than a rom. Rom also provide additional service unseen in official support (hack, graphical amelioration, save state, etc...)

Exactly. As long as the Virtual Console's SNES emulator isn't as good as SNES9X and is confined to a single platform, I don't see myself using it.

[Drum]

? Kirby's Dreamland 3 is way better on VC.  I am pretty sure SNES emulation is console perfect - there are definitely issues with MD and Turbografx tho.

[FrankieSmileShow]

I personally don't mind piracy, but I don't do it anymore.

For more recent games still being sold by their IP owner, ever since I started working a real job I bought most of the pirated games I ever had, usually on Steam if I can find it. Actually I'm pretty sure I bought each and every one of them so far. I think its important to use our purchasing power to buy games that are good, support things that you like. Especially with indies to whom your purchase can actually make a difference of course, but even to all those huge-ass companies to whom your little 20$-40$ wont do much. If you want good games, pay for them, let the games industry know what you like by using a language it understands, your hard-earned ducaroons. I also tend to buy merchandise from things I like for similar reasons, (even if the merchandise is kind of shitty). Its not just about getting a product and not breaking the law, its about putting your money where your mouth is, and supporting things you like, hoping others are doing the same (goddam do these topatoco shirts feel cheap, their pictures are this thick coat of paint on them that weighs it down and peels off easily, its like they actually just paint on them with gouache. I still bought MSPA shirts though...)

If more people did that, maaaybe just maybe it would slowly steer the industry towards crafting better games. Especially for hardcore gamers who, I like to believe, have better taste in games through playing them for a significant portion of their life, and who probably make up a significant portion of pirates.

For old games, I just kind of like owning the cartidge. If I want an old game I always check on ebay before resorting to piracy. Its not for any ethical reason (and how could it be anyway? When you buy the game off ebay, none of the profits go to the authors or IP owners) its just the weird nerdy collector pleasure of having a bunch of old games.

[moi]

If the game DEVELLOPERS and artists are still potentially earning money then pirating roms is bad.
Otherwise it's good to go, especially if it's for satisfying childhood nostalgia, this time when they bombarded you with advertisement in order to take your parents money, remember?
The devellopers of NES/SNES/N64 gen games are not earing any money anymore, the catalogues have probably been sold and resold to content aggregators or big croked-hand media mogul corporations who then go on and lobby for shitty anti-internet laws.

[Toom]

imo there are no ethical problems with ROMs, but they are bad because you aren't getting the authentic console experience. Playing an SNES game isn't nearly as good (to me at least) as playing it on an actual SNES. If that's are all you can do though, there's no problem with them.

Man, whatever peels your banana, but first-party SNES pads are fucking rubbish. We need to admit this to ourselves. FREE YOUR MIND.

imo there are no ethical problems with ROMs

sure there are. i've some sympathy with saying that it's not that bad, but there *are* ethical problems with it, the main one being that the people who made the game don't want you to play it that way. so you're taking something they made and playing it in a way that they prefer you not play it in. so you're clearly going against the wishes of the people who made the thing you're enjoying, and doing that has ethical repercussions provided you believe that you should treat other people with respect and honor how they want you to use the things they created

Yeah, well, Shiguru Myamoto might not approve of me playing OoT whilst wearing my underpants as a hat, but he's going to have to suck it up. When you create something and put it out into the public domain, it no longer belongs to you, and you have no say in how people enjoy it. Obviously you can make suggestions, and often they'll lead to a better experience for the player, but it's not your job to, for example, tell them what system to play it on if there are multiple options available. Of the ethical issues surrounding ROM usage, the risk of hurting a dev's precious fucking feelings does not rank highly.

[Seth]

Why the hell would someone drink orange juice out of a coffee cup?

this is the most ridiculous thing in the thread

orange juice in a coffe mug  

[Nix]

If the game DEVELLOPERS and artists are still potentially earning money then pirating roms is bad.
Otherwise it's good to go,

This is what I wanted to say, but I was too lazy to reply. I am adamantly against pirating when it means that the developers who worked hard on something to share with the world will lose out, or won't be able to buy groceries, but if it means that a corporate publisher may miss out on a few dollars from IP that they themselves had nothing do with (creatively, at least), I don't see a problem.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Yeah, well, Shiguru Myamoto might not approve of me playing OoT whilst wearing my underpants as a hat, but he's going to have to suck it up. When you create something and put it out into the public domain, it no longer belongs to you, and you have no say in how people enjoy it.

i don't think you know what "public domain" means?

[eva]

remember when u recomend peopl to pirate draogn age 2 on a internet forum?/// good times

[gimymblert]

The problem is copyright, except the creator do not benefit from it anymore as much as they should. The argument use to be holder are the one taking the risk by setting the scam business, but when they reach a certain size they are not the one who are laid off when things fuck up, and generally have next to nothing to do with the creation and quality.

[Widget]

remember when u recomend peopl to pirate draogn age 2 on a internet forum?/// good times

Anything that saves people from wasting money on that miserable excuse for a game is good in my book.

[eva]

u know how to save money?? by 1. playing the demo, 2. not buying it if you didnt like the demo. "wahhh i didnt like the game but im going to pirate it anyway because im entitled to steal from a corporate company because they didnt make the game how i wanted it to be!!!!"

[Widget]

u know how to save money?? by 1. playing the demo, 2. not buying it if you didnt like the demo. "wahhh i didnt like the game but im going to pirate it anyway because im entitled to steal from a corporate company because they didnt make the game how i wanted it to be!!!!"

I didn't buy or pirate it, it just doesn't bother me if other people do. People pirating indie games is a shame, people pirating the crap that AAA companies shovel out is no skin off my nose.