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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperTechnical (Moderator: ThemsAllTook)who here can hack (and does...)
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mechacrash
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« on: May 23, 2008, 09:51:19 PM »

ok... simply put im not the greatest hacker in the world.
Ive done my fair share of dll cracking but i need people's help for this one.

basically the RGSS102E.dll (a library file containing a crappy version of ruby along with a nice audio and graphics engine, specifically built for RMXP) needs to be cracked. I must know about the hidden classes within it and how they work!

if i can find this out then maybe... just maybe... i can finally get ruby the place it deserves, in the game development section.

Simply put... if you can hack or crack extremely well encrypted dlls then please reply or PM me as im just stuck...
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Gainsworthy
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2008, 11:43:54 PM »

Ooh, Illegatie. Pity I can't help.

What's a Ruby?
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Alex May
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« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2008, 01:45:42 AM »

scripting language
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mechacrash
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« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2008, 05:13:28 AM »

well its not completely illegal... and ruby is indeed a scripting language (HOW DARE YOU NOT KNOW THAT!!!).
anyway... all im aiming to do is find some scripts that can be overwritten in the normal scripting manner within RMXP itself anyway... the thing is i dont think there is (or ever will be) a script that can tell you everything about a class (a block of data).

So if we hack it then we can use it under the terms that we didnt hack it... e.g. because it CAN be overwritten legally we can overwrite it with itself making the data exposed and legally viewable... but i need to find it first... i cant believe someone in japan still hasnt spilled the beans about it yet though
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Chris Whitman
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« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2008, 10:20:45 AM »

Why and how would a .dll be encrypted? It's just compiled instructions. If you encrypted it, it wouldn't work anymore.
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« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2008, 10:58:39 AM »

Can't you just bundle your preferred Ruby version with some other, but freely available, graphics and sound engine?
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« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2008, 02:37:39 PM »

I Like Cake is right, i don't understand the point.
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mechacrash
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« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2008, 11:13:39 PM »

basically the .dll holds a complete language interpreter .dll within it. Think of it this way, one .dll holds 7 .dlls all written in hex. the development program dissassembles them and converts the code when you compile the game, this way its encrypted and hidden.

The game requires that .dll to work of course.

ive looked inside the decompiled version of the .dll (its twice as big when decompiled too) and i can now read some of the lines in hex.

The problem is the complete .dlls within that one are still encrypted and as such i cannot access their data, even with an ANSI, ASCII or HEX viewer you just get crap (o difference between little and big endian either).

I dont know how they did it but its most likely a ruby / C script as both can be used within the program at will to convert the data within the .dll.

I will send the decompiled and compressed files if you want, that way you can compare them and you will see what i mean.
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ColossusEntertainment
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« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2008, 04:48:12 AM »

Can't you just bundle your preferred Ruby version with some other, but freely available, graphics and sound engine?
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mechacrash
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« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2008, 05:37:53 AM »

ruby doesnt have a graphics or audio engine and because its a standalone scripting interpreter i need something coded in C, in a .dll and complete knowledge of that system to rub graphics externally... kinda waste of time altogether.

if you have any graphics / audio engines (i think i can develop my own engine system working off of the windows one anyway) that dont need a license or something annoying then please tell and i'll look into it, otherwise i still would rather find the scripts within RGSS
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ColossusEntertainment
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« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2008, 06:47:42 AM »

kinda waste of time altogether.

funny, that was I was thinking about the "hacking" idea  Smiley

if you have any graphics / audio engines (i think i can develop my own engine system working off of the windows one anyway) that dont need a license or something annoying then please tell and i'll look into it

well, there's stuff like Allegro and SDL which you could probably use. They don't cost anything to use, but I'm not sure if there are other licensing issues. Or you could even use this: http://www.colossusentertainment.com/DevelopmentStuff/PixieGameEngine.html  which is Public Domain (meaning you can use it for anything you want for free) and sort of written to be small, simple, easy to use.

I think in the long run, you'll find it much more useful (and rewarding) to go down that route rather than trying to "hack" some dll or other to try and use something in a way it wasn't intended, and without source code too...
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mechacrash
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« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2008, 08:21:59 AM »

im using it in the way it was intended but im trying to make it run in ruby instead of the cut down version... RGSS.

but the creators prevented this by hiding the classes within an encrypted .dll because people could reverse engineer RMXP within minutes with that information XD
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ColossusEntertainment
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« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2008, 08:41:00 AM »

im using it in the way it was intended but im trying to make it run in ruby instead of the cut down version... RGSS.

That would be not using it as intended then  :D

but the creators prevented this by hiding the classes within an encrypted .dll because people could reverse engineer RMXP within minutes with that information XD

I don't think they did, and I don't think the dll is encrypted. I think you've got it wrong  Roll Eyes
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Chris Whitman
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« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2008, 08:47:45 AM »

basically the .dll holds a complete language interpreter .dll within it. Think of it this way, one .dll holds 7 .dlls all written in hex. the development program dissassembles them and converts the code when you compile the game, this way its encrypted and hidden.

That isn't really how .dlls work, though. They're already compiled into instructions. They are not disassembled into code by the calling program, they're just loaded and executed. One .dll doesn't hold seven .dlls: it may hold seven source files, but there's no way to get those back out in a way that is easy to read for humans. Most of the critical information that renders code readable by humans is gone by that point. It is not encrypted, it's just unreadable.

Honestly, trying to reverse engineer an entire .dll is an incredibly ambitious project, and seriously not worth your time just to be able to modify a Ruby graphics library. My recommendation: if the API you are using does not support the functionality you want, get a different one, or learn another language entirely, one that has better APIs available. It's a lot less work and you might learn something useful.
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« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2008, 09:09:17 AM »

I'm no coder, but I kind of agree with Cake. If it's being such an enourmous hassle then why not stop using Ruby (and RMXP for that matter) and just learn something else with better resources? What kind of game/program do you want to make with this anyway?
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mechacrash
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« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2008, 09:31:51 AM »

well... i use ruby because:
a) im 15, doing GCSEs and dont have the knowledge or time for more complicated languages
b) Ruby is the greatest scripting system ever... no really... everything is an object so by putting hello.upcase for instance... hello now = HELLO or hello.size returns 5 because its 5 letters long... because of this everything can be edited to limitless extents, especially as it can call C languages and even some Python!
c)the ruby interpreter already uses a cut down version of SDL and the interpreter that needs to be packaged with your games / scripts is a measly 0.5MB, so that plus your 1MB of script = a game at the smallest size!
d) ruby uses Zlib and advapi compression with the easiest method i've ever seen (Zlib::Deflate.deflate(script)... poof your data is compressed and hidden)
e) ruby is quite fun to program because its so dam simple... i found gamemaker harder than ruby... and ruby is raw code XD

theres loads more reasons but these pretty much sum up my thoughts... i dont want to and really cant be bothered to change coding methods... im happy with this one and my ability is quite high with it... thast the reason im trying to break barriers and build a complete game engine using a lagless simple ruby audio / graphics system... already built into RGSS.

but then hey... i havnt tried many scripting languages and tehres probably ones better... but sadly none are 100% object orientated Sad
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« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2008, 10:01:42 AM »

at 15, there's nothing stopping you from learning any language at all.. when I was 15, me and my friends had been doing both assembler and c for years... age doesn't reallt have anything to do with it (determination and drive does though).

b) Ruby is the greatest scripting system ever... no really... everything is an object so by putting hello.upcase for instance... hello now = HELLO or hello.size returns 5 because its 5 letters long...

No, it's not. really. It's very good for some things, and like many dynamic languages it can be very expressive in certain areas, but it's not "the greatest". In fact, no language is, as all of them has their pros and cons, and weighing those is something you can only learn from experience. The lack of types have downsides too, it's not just good.

What is it you're aiming for? What is your ultimate goal with this? Do you want to make a specific game? Do you want to work in the industry? If you tell us, I'm sure we'll have plenty of good suggestions for you :-)
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mechacrash
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« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2008, 10:46:26 AM »

i dont wanna work in an industry... i do this for fun... what i want... experience... i just code for fun and i only get "fun" from ruby... so far
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« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2008, 01:03:40 PM »

i just code for fun and i only get "fun" from ruby... so far
I'd guess this is more because it's what you're used to using than any particular feature of the language.  You should try to get comfortable with some other languages; it's usually not that hard if you give it an honest shot.  Usually when I learn a new language I do spend some time cursing about how it lacks this or that, but then I get used to it and find a lot to like.

One trick to make learning a language more fun is to try doing a project in the language as you learn it.  Perhaps install python and pygame and try following a tutorial to make a game, and pick up the language as you go.

ruby doesnt have a graphics or audio engine and because its a standalone scripting interpreter i need something coded in C, in a .dll and complete knowledge of that system to rub graphics externally... kinda waste of time altogether.
Is using something like RubyGame really that hard?  If you're still having trouble installing it, have you tried following the instructions here: http://rubygame.wiki.sourceforge.net/win32_install_gem?
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mechacrash
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« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2008, 05:26:34 AM »

installing ruby/sdl just doesnt seem to work and rubygame is really wierd... it uses its own thousands of methods and layout for its system while using ruby's system for general coding... think of visual basic layout and code mixed with ruby... its ugly adn confusing beyond all measure
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