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AdamAtomic
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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2007, 08:25:16 PM »

haha yeah, i think Fusion would have been a GREAT game if it wasn't a metroid game, if that makes any sense...but I was amazed by the sense of urgency during those (definitely canned) chase segments.  If that could be extrapolated into a more emergent, free exploration setting...man I'd play that!
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« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2007, 09:48:06 PM »

I was thinking about this just before reading this post.

Has anyone played (old PC game) Ecstatica? It was a kind of fantasy Alone in the Dark game where you were stranded in this weird village overtaken by monsters, all in bright colours. While you trying to figure stuff out, a monster was randomly roaming the place, and would promptly batter you to a pulp if he caught you. That scared the shit out of me. If that was perhaps a bit more forgiving (i.e. there was some sort of warning system) it would have been brilliant and almost exactly what you're describing. Saying that, Ecstatica did let you hide in a wardrobe (which also mysteriously gave you health back... bug I think) and also after getting caught the first time you were given a second chance (although your starting point was hung upside down on a wooden cross). I don't think I ever completed that game just because I ended up just running... even if it wasn't there.

Resident Evil 2 also had something similar for one of the twists, which was more of a set-piece but still worked in the 'edge-of-your-seat/seat-of-your-pants/whatever' kinda way. Some big guy would 'randomly' walk through walls to block off your path, scare the shit out of you and lead you to panic wildly (I'm not very good at these games, I've no idea why I played 'em).
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« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2007, 10:45:58 PM »

Has anyone played (old PC game) Ecstatica? It was a kind of fantasy Alone in the Dark game where you were stranded in this weird village overtaken by monsters, all in bright colours. While you trying to figure stuff out, a monster was randomly roaming the place, and would promptly batter you to a pulp if he caught you. That scared the shit out of me. If that was perhaps a bit more forgiving (i.e. there was some sort of warning system) it would have been brilliant and almost exactly what you're describing.
It does sound exciting.  Maybe some kind of game with Metal Gear abilities, and the warning signs are subtle, like footsteps that slowly get louder, or breathing, and you hide in a closet or under a bed.  A true survival horror game.  It's not so much about the survival itself if you've got an army arsenal throwing flames and shooting rockets at whatever enemy you see, like others in the genre I've played.

Now, my memory is vague on this game, but wasn't Clock Tower about this?  You were this almost-helpless girl, and there was this maniac that'd wander the castle/mansion.  If you saw him, you had to get away.  It was weird, because it was point n click (I believe), so you didn't feel the excitement of controlling the running.  You just watched a script play out once you clicked on your destination.  But I think there were puzzles to figure out, to get away from this monster.

Oh, and regarding the original post... you want a boss battle game?  Just a game filled with bosses?  or maybe a single boss you have to handle in different environments?

I really don't think there are many people out there who could make AI that would make this game work.  The very best FPS bot AI wouldn't be NEAR what would be required to make this game work.  It'd be like five times the effort to make a game like this, with a single enemy, than a normal FPS.  Probably more when taking into account the care that'd have to go into level design around this already difficult-to-create AI, taking into account the almost limitless ways a human could interact with that AI.

If it were to magically appear though, I'd like to try it.
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« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2007, 12:25:37 PM »

Ecstatica wasn't exclusively about dodging the monster, though. I remember it mostly for its strange spherical appearance (it used spheres instead of triangles... hard to explain without a screenshot).

The sequel I never played.
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« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2007, 01:33:51 PM »

oh yeah.  I remember seeing that.  I wanted to play it.  It looked pretty good for the time.
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« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2007, 02:41:19 PM »

I used the stalker setup for my Exile idea.

Actually, the original Exile had it. You were in this massive cave system which also had a little eco system. There were a few robots chasing you, and for the climax, there was this dude called Triax who was an AI bot of the player. I never got that far, but the game was pretty exiting. It ran on a (6502?) machine with 32kb of ram.

As you moved through the game, you found weapons, keys, environment suits and all sorts of things. The game had relatively awesome physics as well.


I think people would come up with exploits against the AI pretty quick though. I don't know how many superior bosses I have defeated because I managed to get them into a deterministic pattern or something.


I think I played some M.Fusion. The illusion shattered for me after I quickly discovered that the antagonist was a plain invulnerable scripted dummy.
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« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2007, 02:43:44 PM »

I think a well-pathed level and decent AI would work, really, with decent design. But yes, it would be ripe for exploitation.
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« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2007, 05:50:56 PM »

yeh, the cat&mouse/hunter&prey concept shouldn't be completely scripted events.  after the 1st time, they tend to lose that thrill factor.  games like that should be constantly evolving and randomised, with the AI opponent learning your weaknesses as the game progresses.  that and plenty of options for both hunter and hunted.

it'd be interesting if the roles were reversed as well.
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« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2007, 06:12:27 AM »

I think that'd be a fun change from mowing down legions of stupid enemies.  To be stalked and attacked by one or two superior enemies in an interesting environment.

I've wanted to see a 2D game with a single persistant boogeyman/enemy in it for some time. I love the idea of something which is completely unpredictable stalking me all the time which could jump out at any moment and cause utter panic.
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« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2007, 09:21:21 AM »

Now, my memory is vague on this game, but wasn't Clock Tower about this?  You were this almost-helpless girl, and there was this maniac that'd wander the castle/mansion.  If you saw him, you had to get away.  It was weird, because it was point n click (I believe), so you didn't feel the excitement of controlling the running.  You just watched a script play out once you clicked on your destination.  But I think there were puzzles to figure out, to get away from this monster.

Ah, Clock Tower, a game that I was fascinated with, despite being somewhat short. Yes, the game was for the most part an horror adventure game in the gameplay style of maniac mansion, scrpited chase scenes, that still were quite freaky. I don't recalll if walking/running was controlled by the screen cursor, but I am almost certain you used L and R buttons for it.
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« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2007, 09:52:25 PM »

I think that'd be a fun change from mowing down legions of stupid enemies.  To be stalked and attacked by one or two superior enemies in an interesting environment.

I've wanted to see a 2D game with a single persistant boogeyman/enemy in it for some time. I love the idea of something which is completely unpredictable stalking me all the time which could jump out at any moment and cause utter panic.

Clock Tower SNES?
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« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2007, 09:59:39 PM »

I think we've already mentioned it, but yeah, that game gave me the shivers.
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« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2007, 10:05:38 PM »

Yeah, but I thought they were referring to the 3D ones -- I just brought it up cause there was a 2D one too.

This thread got me thinking -- why are the enemies in a game always outnumber you? It'd be interesting to play a game where you outnumbered the enemy. RPG boss battles sort of count, but I'm thinking more like a game where you play the swarms of disposable creatures and the enemy is a single intelligent, maneuverable person fighting through them.
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« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2007, 05:15:20 AM »

I suppose it's because of the philosophy behind it. I like the idea, but that kind of supposes that you are the "bad guy" trying to destroy one of another kind. As humans, we prefer to see our heroe fighting hords of enemies alone, a nice allegory for the humans being the only specie of it's kind, more intelligent and ressourceful than thousands of other species on the planet (animals, plants, insects), fighting for survival against those species who want to eat us.

It's also more rewarding when you control only one avatar at a time since you can easily associated yourself with the character. You're the one who destroys the enemies. By having numerous weak foes, you have quick success without much trouble. Pretty much what humans always look for: the maximum while investing the minimum.

Anywho, I still think it's a good idea. I see a game like that where the player controls an army of different units seeking to destroy one powerful enemy. The player could lay trap and use his different units together in various tactics in order to bring down the "giant" (not necessarly a giant in itself but an enemy that is overwhelming us). Teamwork between the units would be key to success.

RTS allows us to do a bit of this but it's focused on armies versus armies so it's not exactly what we're talking about here.

Well, enough rambling...
Later! 
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« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2007, 08:47:09 AM »

Master of Orion allowed the play to use a many against the few tactic, since it was possible to take on a small number of or a single huge ship with many small ships (scores to hundreds) with neutron pellet guns or death rays and wipe them out while loosing only a percentage of your forces. The small ships were cheap, quick, and expendable. This, in turn, switched my MOO strategy away from trying to maintain a lead within a race of common-sense brute force that emulated my enemies' efforts to a race of research. I would develop the NP guns as fast as possible to take over the galaxy far quicker than any other route I tried in the game. Only on the hardest, largest, most diverse galaxy option did I have to bother with diplomacy while I built up what the coding considered a weak fleet of small ships.

As a side note, I had no idea there was a prequel, freeware version of the game until I browsed through the Wikipedia entry on MOO. I'm going to have to give Star Lords a try.
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« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2007, 04:38:30 AM »

That game gave me the shivers.
The scissors?
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« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2007, 07:46:34 AM »

I think it was more that first scene in the garden.

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« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2007, 03:01:52 PM »

I've been thinking about the idea of creating a game focused on only two characters (you and the other thing out there) and an environment. It has been mentioned that the challenge would come from creating AI advanced enough to navigate the environment and seek/fight you in unique, adaptative ways, as not to make the experience quickly boring and repetitive (much like other games constantly throw new enemies/puzzles/weapons at you to keep you interested).

The main reason why creating this unique, single highly intelligent AI would be more challenging than creating a hord of unique but mostly braindead enemies is the simple fact that the "more is better" phylosophy is what the industry is following nowadays. There is very little development in the creation of AI technologies geared towards one single character. You constantly hear of enemies in games using new tactical, swarming, flock, whatever AI's that basicaly deal with a ton of enemies working efficiently around their environment without doing stupid things like blocking eachother, getting on eachother's line of fire, etc, but you rarely hear of new AI technology dealing with making a single character be as resourceful and creative in managing his environment as the player himself.

Development in a direction that hasn't really been very much thought of is always harder than just expanding on what everybody is talking about. But isn't that what we need? In order to innovate, shouldn't we go in directions most people are afraid to? Creating a game like this for the new generation would be risky, but if the experiment worked, it might have a large impact on what future developers will think for their games. And even if the game that came out wasn't perfect, who says it has to be? Façade is glitchy and not all that effective in what it intended, but it doesn't have to be because everybody is still talking about it. It tried to head a different way then anybody else, managed to achieve something, and even if it's not as flawless a experience as playing Gears of War, it's probably far more effective in turns of pushing the envelope and making people think new things and have new ideas.
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