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[Flopsy M]

Hi guys, working on a fantasy iso game at the moment, and the part I'm having a little trouble with is the people. I used a tutorial to get the basic shapes, and would love a little c&c on my second attempt (especially on shape, form, anatomy etc. although all notes would be useful). I know it's not great, but as I am not going for realistic sprites, it is almost passable in it's current state.



Any pointers? Thanks!

[Jesse]

Hi Flopsy! I like the look, I'm thinking maybe the arms and legs are looking a bit flat? Specifically his left (the ones toward us) could be rounded. Also to be true isometric, his left foot and left shoulder should both be lower, keeping on the same line that his belt has established.

[Flopsy M]

Oh wow, thanks! As soon as you said the thing about the lines of the shoulders and feet, I saw it myself. I'll have a pop at the rounded-ness of the arms and fix the feet etc., and upload a new one. Thanks for having a look!

[Jesse]

No problem, looking forward to seeing it updated. 

[Flopsy M]

Hi guys!

Just had a go at tweaking the feet, and making the sleeves look a little more rounded. I also tried my hand at  using more than one colour in the outline, as I know that can look quite good.

Any input, or re-dos or whatever are greatly appreciated.

[Jesse]

Good progress! The sprite is shaping up nicely.

The next thing I'd consider is working on your anatomy a bit. In your sprite the shoulders are a bit too high, making him(?) look tense and uncomfortable. His shoulders should be relaxed more (lower) to look more natural. This will also lengthen his arms, which look a bit short now. Hands should usually hang past the hips, around the buttocks. His feet also could use a small bit of outward projection, as we usually don't stand with them completely straight:



I've played with these things a bit in the second sprite. You can see it's starting to look a bit more natural.

In the third, I've added a light source, because I think that's the next thing you should work on. It doesn't have to be anything like this, and could come from any angle, add a hue, different highlights, different shadows, etc. But there should definitely be one somewhere.

Lights!

[P-Flute]

Hey Flopsy!  Keep workin'!  :D  I think one thing I noticed at a quick glance is that the face looks particularly flat, as it's not angled at all.  Of course, you could be going for that.  But if you wanted it to be angled along with the rest of the body, that could be as simple as lowering the eye on the right just one pixel down.  Cheers! 

[Shiny]

The first thing that I noticed is that the character is very blocky and rigid. Jesse pointed this out earlier, and their edit is a step in the right direction, but the limbs could use a similar treatment as well.

Here is an edit (very little experience with isometric here, so it isn't perfect):


I also changed the clothes so that they're a little more cohesive, adjusted the head's angle (as mentioned by P-Flute), and adjusted numerous other things (palette, belt curvature, etc.).

Oh, and sorry for giving them a santa hat.

[Jesse]

That's a nice sprite but it doesn't help much dude. Not really an "edit" as much as a complete redo, as you've totally changed the style, palette, and even design of the character.

Saying mine is a "step in the right direction" is pretty ironic, since that's what we should be trying to give people who ask for advice. Not completely different sprites.

Just my opinion.

Carry on.

[Shiny]

That's a nice sprite but it doesn't help much dude. Not really an "edit" as much as a complete redo, as you've totally changed the style, palette, and even design of the character.

Saying mine is a "step in the right direction" is pretty ironic, since that's what we should be trying to give people who ask for advice. Not completely different sprites.

The "step in the right direction" remark refers solely to addressing the linework's rigidity (which you began to do, and was taken a bit further in my edit). It was not meant in an insulting manner.

I agree that the other changes may have clouded the primary intention somewhat, but also feel that they may be useful as well. The edit was intended to give an idea of how to proceed, not force any particular route (it's an edit, not a tutorial). And even if you were to remove these various other changes, the lines would remain markedly less rigid.

[Jesse]

Well the rigidity is something that comes from that isometric style.







Three different artists but all rigid, even the last to an extent. It's a style thing, and I just thought it was a bit arrogant to completely change it. If I came in wanting advice on a sprite and found edits that were complete and total redesigns, I would be slightly miffed. I didn't change the overall design of the sprite because that's not my place.

Maybe I'm wrong and Flopsy will get a lot of help from yours. If that's the case I'll shut up!

Anyways, nice pixels though! 

[Ishi]

Isometric is a perspective, not a style. As a quick example, FF Tactics Advance:



it's isometric but the characters aren't all boxy and rigid. For a fantasy game particularly I don't think the blocky isometric style is particularly suitable, so for this reason I think Shiny's edit is quite useful. It's easy to get too focused on the isometric viewpoint, and forget what shape the sprite should actually be.

[Jesse]

Isometric is a perspective, not a style. As a quick example, FF Tactics Advance:



it's isometric but the characters aren't all boxy and rigid. For a fantasy game particularly I don't think the blocky isometric style is particularly suitable, so for this reason I think Shiny's edit is quite useful. It's easy to get too focused on the isometric viewpoint, and forget what shape the sprite should actually be.

Yes, I'm aware it's a perspective. I misspoke in the last post, and had forgotten to take into account that this sprite is for a fantasy game. That speaks to Shiny's edit, because he's right, it doesn't necessarily have to be rigid. It's a good sprite.

Where I took issue was the fact that he simply redid the entire thing to an extreme degree and then gave no actual advice. He hasn't really explained anything that he did or tried to teach anything. Simply showing somebody a better version of something they're working on seemed to me to come off slightly arrogant.

If I wanted advice on writing, and somebody showed me Catch-22 and said, "Do this," it wouldn't help me much and I'd be perturbed. Especially if that person was Joseph Heller.

 

[Shiny]

Where I took issue was the fact that he simply redid the entire thing to an extreme degree and then gave no actual advice. He hasn't really explained anything that he did or tried to teach anything. Simply showing somebody a better version of something they're working on seemed to me to come off slightly arrogant.

I was specifically trying to avoid writing a scary wall-of-text explanation with hope that they could learn by observation. "A picture is worth a thousand words", or however that mantra goes.

_{(And on another note: your pronoun usage is quite a leap of faith...)}

If I wanted advice on writing, and somebody showed me Catch-22 and said, "Do this," it wouldn't help me much and I'd be perturbed. Especially if that person was Joseph Heller.

This is why they are allowed to ask questions.

[Jesse]

_{(And on another note: your pronoun usage is quite a leap of faith...)}

Sorry, I normally try to avoid doing that....
Hope I didn't offend.

Anyways this is getting unproductive. Awesome redo/sprite, hopefully Flopsy can learn from it!

[Flopsy M]

Hey guys, I just dropped in to check up on this.

I just saw all these new posts, I think Shiny's edit is very good, but I think it's quite a leap for me to make to that standard. I will work on a bit at a time and try to get up a new image in the next few days. Sorry it's been so long, if I'm honest, I'm having a bit of a tough time with unrelated things at the moment, so have a little motivational blip at the moment.

I think going back to Jesse's edit, I had tried to highlight it in a similar manner, but I think my palette choice is limiting me a little- possibly due to a lack of contrast.

Like I said, I'll have another crack this week. Thanks so much for all the help guys.