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[droqen]

Is this ever a good thing for the person on the receiving end?

I vote ""


(briefly consider physical substances - coffee, cigarettes, other drugs - before answering about games)

[s0]

My 2 cents: A good game is probably going to be "addictive" by virtue of being good. I think game designers should focus more on that rather than trying to work out new ways to exploit their players psychologically.

[SundownKid]

Just because a game's addicting doesn't mean it's good, but good games are usually addicting. In general, it's a good quality for both the creator and the player, and its negative effects are usually the fault of the person playing the game. Just because a game is addicting doesn't mean the player will not have the self control to curtail their playing.

[Theophilus]

The only thing bad about playing a game to the point of addiction is the strain on your eyes after not blinking.

Jokes aside, I think games are not very addictive. There are some, but for me, it's few and far between. Last one I played that really had me addicted was... timesplitters 2.

When you say compare it to caffeine, cigs, etc, games cannot fall into that category as far as physical health goes. I think games can certainly be bad for you if you don't, for example, go outside, eat and exercise regularly because of the game. It may cause sleep deprivation and what not.

For the good? It's entertaining. What else can you do for 8 hours straight?

[increpare]

The only thing bad about playing a game to the point of addiction is the strain on your eyes after not blinking.

For the good? It's entertaining. What else can you do for 8 hours straight?

Sitting for eight hours straight is NOT good for you.  (allowing for toilet stuff and food breaks) I've read books for 8 hours straight, walked for 8 hours straight, made games for 8 hours straight.

[droqen]

games cannot fall into that category as far as physical health goes
..
What else can you do for 8 hours straight?

Uh, anything else? (I am guilty of playing games for very large portions of my daily time ._. though such games usually don't last me longer than a week. I guess it's not like games are that much more timewasteful than anything else you could decide to do. Why was I so antagonistic aaaaa)

~

Anyway, thanks for the responses. I put this in design because I stumbled upon some person saying they were going to make a game, and lauded this game-to-be as fun and addictive. Personally, I'd never want to play (or make) a game with a selling point of 'ADDICTIVE' and you guys seem to agree.

On exploiting your player psychologically: What if you don't do it on purpose? I think it's just about as bad to simply be ignorant about how you might be exploiting accidentally.


I played Kirby: Canvas Curse for 20 hours over one weekend. I beat it with all five characters.

[Theophilus]

games cannot fall into that category as far as physical health goes
..
What else can you do for 8 hours straight?

Uh, anything else? (I am guilty of playing games for very large portions of my daily time ._. though such games usually don't last me longer than a week. I guess it's not like games are that much more timewasteful than anything else you could decide to do. Why was I so antagonistic aaaaa)

Sure there are better things to do than play games for a long time, but what other truly interactive activity keeps you occupied longer than games? I shouldn't have said that that was a good thing, that was a little misleading. Games are often the most distracting thing.


What makes a game addictive? Someone said that a game doesn't have to be 'good' to be addictive, but it certainly helps. If the game isn't good, how can it be addictive?


EDIT: Addictive might be a buzzword if it's used for exposure.

[droqen]

Cow Clicker

[increpare]

Sure there are better things to do than play games for a long time, but what other truly interactive activity keeps you occupied longer than games?

Divorce.  

[pgil]

Sure there are better things to do than play games for a long time, but what other truly interactive activity keeps you occupied longer than games?

Divorce. 

Climbing a mountain.
Painting.
Playing baseball.
Having a conversation.
Cooking thanksgiving dinner for your family.
Building a boat.
Going to college.
Making, and selling, crystal meth.
Birdwatching.
Picking up girls.
Planting a vegetable garden.
Self-publishing a novel.
Starting your own business.
Backpacking through Europe.
Knitting a sweater.
Building a replica of the Hagia Sophia out of legos.
Learning how to make wine.
Surfing.

[gimymblert]

A good meal is not addicting
Why a good game should be?

[_Tommo_]

A good meal is not addicting
Why a good game should be?

While a junk meal is addicting, because engineered to do so.

To me there's a lot of difference between engaging and addicting...
something addictive wastes your time, and that's never a good thing.
Just think at the grinding mechanics in any MMO, or the collectibles in farmville, etc. Those do not add real replay value, they just exploit the player.

[Sankar]

This is a great topic do debate.

Games and Drugs/Food are two different categories, as far as "addicting" goes. A game does not inject you with chemicals. Your body produces these chemicals while playing the game.

I've been making a series of posts about "Human Behavior and Game Design", and how sucessful games use human behavior theories in its design.

Addicting "things" tend to addict people by filling a gap, it may be a chemical gap, a social one or a self-respect one. Games, and everything else in life, works by either rewarding you, or not (what causes frustration). YES is good, NO is bad.

What my researches have shown is that people who end up being addicted to games are not "basement dwellers" as people tend to think, they are people who (up to that point) were very good at whatever they did, the kind of people that society pats in the back and say "keep that attitude and you'll go far".

When we talk about addicting games, I feel that most of the time we're talking about social/facebook games and MMORPGs. Games that need people to "keep paying".

The average joe plays these games just for some days. The reason is because these games rewards players at increasing distant intervals. At first you level up by killing one monster, then three... and so on. Some levels later you need to play for 8 hours to get a new level, then 10 hours, and so on.
Most people can't deal with this frustration and quickly forget about the game some days later.

"Determined" people are the ones who can stay days, weeks, months doing the same thing, with minimum reward, because they can hold on to a reward, even if its very far... Just look up online, you'll see lots of people saying that they quit their (sucessful) jobs because of a game or something.

The fact is that, it doesn't matter how unrewarding a game may be, rarely it is less rewarding than an average job. And there is where it lies the catch.

So, I don't feel like developers are using "super secret magic" to make their games more addicting, they use some basic concepts of human behavior that even Mario uses. The developers are just doing their best to make engaging games.

If anyone is interested in my studies about psychology, human behavior and game design, you can check out the first part here: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=19627.0.

[offal]

we make games to challenge you, to bring you joy

when you make games to wilfully exploit our psychology, we will hold you in contempt for being manipulative and disingenuous

[gimymblert]

I tend to think:

FUN is visceral, it's the pleasure of manipulation.
ADDICTIVE is intellectual, it's the satisfaction of gaining.

Fun is more real than addiction, a good game is a good toy first, an addictive game is generally all about the point and anticipation of some fake status.

A good game use addictive elements moderately (to set goal) and rely principally on Fun aspect (something to play with, not to be game on).


It's easier to design for addiction, most modern game use heavy addictive mechanics and replace game fun (manipulation) with audio visual fun (bling bling sound and shiny graphics).
A game devoid of FUN is dry
A game devoid of addiction is shallow (no anticipation).

[s0]

Pretty much agree.

Also, I'd argue "good" game is basically a game that provides a worthwhile experience, i.e. a game that you play because you want to play it, not just to waste time or because of some feeling of "obligation."

[vinheim3]

I wouldn't say addicting games are generally bad, just not fun. When it comes down to those games like in Facebook that are addicting, but the things you do in it are repetitive and there's nothing new, people get hooked on it because there is a TON of opportunity for the game to reward you. Every level in a Facebook game, you get access to a ton of new stuff to try out.

Not being fun (at least mediocre/interesting) can be a good thing though. Most people I see who play Facebook games are adults that look like they're not into games, that look like they think they're a waste of time (who doesn't know people with that mentality?). Because they're not fun, but you feel accomplished every step, addicting games have exposed a lot of people who've never played games.. to games.

If your target audience are these people, I'd say go ahead and make addicting games, it might even be a good way to expose your other indie projects to the public.

[XRA]

instead of more addicting in terms of farmville (uses the good tricks of games in manipulative, abusive ways), you want a game that will stay in the Player's mind after they have played it.  You want Players to remember unique experiences they had in the game, ones that they will be compelled to share with other people.

[droqen]

XRA, I think the word you're looking for is

• Memorable

[s0]

Not being fun (at least mediocre/interesting) can be a good thing though. Most people I see who play Facebook games are adults that look like they're not into games, that look like they think they're a waste of time (who doesn't know people with that mentality?). Because they're not fun, but you feel accomplished every step, addicting games have exposed a lot of people who've never played games.. to games.

Yeah, but how many of them actually move on from Farmville? Most people I know who play that sort of thing have zero interest in other types of games.

Social and casual games also don't do a whole lot to counter the whole "videogames are a waste of time" attitude, because they're designed to waste time for when you have "nothing better to do."