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[s0]

Apparently, Reggie used to look like a cross between Urkel and Herbie Hancock when he was younger. Interesting.

[gimymblert]

Alright people, let's focus on the Wii U discussion instead of fighting, like C.A.S. mentionned .

Now on topic, I must admit that the girl in that ubi video is annoying. Is this how Ubi sees the female gamer? Able to play but totally a bitch?

Come on, a tease don't make you a bitch

The wii became a budget bin system because of this: developers tried to find new ways of using the wiimote but they failed. They couldn't come up with good ideas under the time/money pressure so they used the 2 movements they saw in Nintendo games. When you gotta come up with a good game within a tight schedule and budget, the whole "let's be innovative" thing is dropped real fast.

No they don't even try aside from day dreaming 1:1 movement that make no sense from an ergonomic perspective even if it was possible. Nintendo did show good implementation that was never pick up (hello metroid prime wii, or simply various wii sport minigame or wii fit, the skate boarding in wii fit is still the best too bad there isn't 50+ level ).

Dev are not doing their job and were being ignorant, they are just lazy and time and money is not even an excuse. The same on DS actually, aside from ninja gaiden you had zero real thought and instead they resign to "click and point" mouse like. But not surprising considering the creativity level of the industry. And when some game could show a good direction the game itself wasn't very good so nobody paid attention (SW Force unleash wii use of force).

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i'm sure indies would find 1001 great ways to use the wiimote, but indies are kept out of wiiware by nintendo (you need to work in an office to even get a dev kit)

[gimymblert]

wrong, while there is no official sdk like kinect, there is many solution to use a wiimote on pc like glove pie (complete with balance board, nunchuk,  classic controller and gyro support). All you need is bluetooth and some sensor bar replacement.

And there was very cool experiment (rarely entire game) with it too. But dev in general like to do what they like (less risk of failure). I hope to do some wiimote like supported game once I'm able to have more proficiency with programming.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

yes but those games would not be playable on the wii. that's pretty necessary. nobody is going to make a game that uses the wiimote for only the handful of people who use wiimotes with their PCs. games take years to make. unless someone is sure the game has a large potential audience, they aren't going to invest the time and energy

so i do think that if nintendo was more open for indies, we'd see actual good use made of the wiimote

[Player 3]

so i do think that if nintendo was more open for indies, we'd see actual good use made of the wiimote

With "meta" thinkers, you'd bet.

[Türbo Bröther]

A game in the style of Descent or HeroQuest (or DooM if you want a sci-fi alternative) would be brilliant on this.

[Guert]

Come on, a tease don't make you a bitch

As the game progresses, she decides not to get involved, doesn't not support her team, asks for what to do and responds by whining. When she shoots one character at one time, she gloats. But I'm not saying the other teammates have good attitude too. Like mentioned earlier and on kotaku, they are all behaving like a--holes

No they don't even try aside from day dreaming 1:1 movement that make no sense from an ergonomic perspective even if it was possible. Nintendo did show good implementation that was never pick up (hello metroid prime wii, or simply various wii sport minigame or wii fit, the skate boarding in wii fit is still the best too bad there isn't 50+ level ).

Dev are not doing their job and were being ignorant, they are just lazy and time and money is not even an excuse. The same on DS actually, aside from ninja gaiden you had zero real thought and instead they resign to "click and point" mouse like. But not surprising considering the creativity level of the industry. And when some game could show a good direction the game itself wasn't very good so nobody paid attention (SW Force unleash wii use of force).

Well, maybe it's because I sit on the side where I am a developer and worked on ds and know others who worked on the wii but...

When you are in a bainstorm and you think of cool ideas for the wii and then we ask ourselves: yea this is cool but, have we implemented this before? Do we need to R&D this or not? How hard are these moves to calibrate? Can all players perform the moves correctly? Are we alienating certain players if we use this approach? Can this move be performed by both standard wiimote users and wiimote plus? And most of all... Can we go gold with a year or so using this budget and not lose our jobs?

Maybe I've become bitter with how studio console game development work. Maybe I'm loosing hope that the majority of games will stop being developed under the "Ok, the project is ripping off this game, just make it quick, you got 10 months. Just cut corners, copy concepts and don't think too much. If you don't you're fired." menace. The wii is a very commercial game console; as Paul mentionned, Nintendo hand-picks the business partners it wants to work with. Notice I said "business partners" not developers. When you do game for the business, creativity, originality and R&D are usualy removed from the equation, unless you're a pretty big studio in a pretty big team and you got very lucky that head office approved your concept. that's not how the business game is played everywhere but unfortunately, that's the majority of  the cases.

It don't matter if you are indie or not, creativity flows through all game developers. I'm sure all kinds of developers would come up with cool stuff to do with the Wii U, indie or not, as long as Nintendo supports its difficult format. Wii's best sellers were Nintendo games featuring a bunch of mini-games (wii sports, Wii resort, wii fit). that set the tone for the rest of the business: if ya wanna go rich with wii, do little simple games and tell people they are going to be better fit afterwards. No need for official medical consultation and approval to make sure you are not hurting your players or whatever, just make them wiggle a bit, break a little sweat and they're gonna give you their wallets blindly. And unless your name is featured on head lines at GDC, it's hard to extend your budget and scedule to come up with something cool that's gonna work AND sell to the mass market.


Yeah i guess I'm bitter  

[s0]

But most indies lack the budget to make anything really ambitious on the Wii, so we'd probably end up seeing tons of single-mechanic gimmick puzzle games.

[njm1992]

But most indies lack the budget to make anything really ambitious on the Wii, so we'd probably end up seeing tons of single-mechanic gimmick puzzle games.

How is that different from the non-indie games on the wii?

There isn't that many wii games that REALLY use the controller with some creativity. Most is just simple swinging and waggling(or however that word is spelled).

[Alevice]

I would have liked the penumbra games have wii(mote sup)port.

[s0]

How is that different from the non-indie games on the wii?

the point

[SirNiko]

I would love to see a wii game that uses this. It requires you to rig up the remote and sensor totally backwards, but the effect is really awesome.

[gimymblert]

@Guert
This is the other side of the problem too, but like on early DS idea, most idea were doomed to fail because they were ambitious idea about motion (generally complex gesture recognition which is slow, ambiguous and hard to read, big no no in ergonomic interface) and not ambitious idea about actual functional interface. I mean look at ninja gaiden DS, they do nothing "new" nor fancy and yet you almost see nothing replicate that school of thought. It's all about "head, feet, hand" (information framing, navigation and selection, interaction). Kinect (or even move) are greatly more difficult to create things for (especially true about navigation).

But it's not too late, wii U is still wiimote base and indie can still use glove pie. Newcomer on Iphone does some great thing to evolve touch base control occasionally too.

[s0]

Yeah, Ninja Gaiden DS is a great example of a touch interface that works well in a "hardcore" game and isn't gimmicky. So are Cave's iPhone ports of Espgaluda 2 and Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu, though a lot of shmupnerds seem to disagree with me on that one.

[gimymblert]

Oh hum ... i have just realize nintendo is preparing the eventual war against onlive like, basically the WII U look like an experiment in remote streaming on a local basis to learn the rope just in case of ... as the technology is not yet mature.

Waiting to see their online strategy a bit more, but it wouldn't be surprising to see them adapting the tech from online to wii U set up box on the long run. 3DS may also receive have some video streaming functionality who may know?

[Uykered]

Yeah, Ninja Gaiden DS is a great example of a touch interface that works well in a "hardcore" game and isn't gimmicky. So are Cave's iPhone ports of Espgaluda 2 and Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu

So many lols in 2 sentences.

[Headless Man]

Not even fighting with touch screen controls could make Cave games compelling on any level.

[Guert]

True! To be honest, I want to be surprised and I am looking forward to see what is going to happen. I'm wishin' hard but not hangin' on the idea. And yeah, now that you mention it, the Wii U looks like an experiment to see if they are going to go with that market.

Exceptional embarassement: Explain like a gentleman or behave please.

Headless Man: What kind of games do you play? What cave games have you tried and disliked?

[Headless Man]

Headless Man: What kind of games do you play? What cave games have you tried and disliked?

I just play whatever.  Lately I have been playing a lot of old stuff on MAME and Roguelikes.
I have played every Cave game that is currently emulated.  I have a lot of problems with Cave games but I don't really dislike them despite what I said, I was just counter-dicking Alistair John Jack.  You were unfortunate collateral damage, sorry.