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[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Yeah, Atari 2600. But I love this game.

[Bezzy]

Why do these things look like crap, yet still manage to scare the shit out of you regardless... amazing feat of production...

I just love how your hud says, rather usefully, "A Hybrid" while a monster is attacking the fuck out of you. Good to know what's attacking the fuck out of you, you know?

(And I love that game. The first time I played it was in co-op, and it still scared the piss out of me).

[moi]

It's gonna be a hot manly night

[PoV]

[Shinji16]

Reeks of 4chan and awesomeness.

Btw - System Shock is definitely one of the best ever. Bonus points to those that remember what SHODAN was an acronym for...

[Xion]

[Slash - Santiago Zapata]

A Must!


Another Must!


Rogue

[xix]

No offense, but the term "evocative" is really fucking useless when you post pictures of Roguelikes.

Most games are graphic, and by that I mean they're visual language. RLs entrench videogames in this idea that they are inaccessable and separate from the rest of the world's art.

Have you ever seen some Dadaist painting and wondered "why?" That's exactly the same response non gamers have when they try to experience games like RLs.

I'm not going to say RLs are bad games. I think that they're great as this entrenched kind of game. It's like high level Street Fighter play, only those in the know really know. Those elite few are the ones who glean something interesting. But pretending like it's evocative is silly. If anything it bares everything and highlights just how empty RLs are.

There's my rant. It may have been rough, but that's what it is. I'm not looking for an apology. That would be a waste of time. I'm just looking for people to post some more evocative photos. I mean, shit, where are the K7 or Rez images? Or DQ8 or Sim City pictures? Videogames work are the quintessential media with readily accessable themes and icons, yet...  ASCII characters?

Maybe if James Joyce wrote a Roguelike...

[Alex May]

uh, what

I mean, that screenshot, now I have played RLs before so maybe that makes me biased, but it says to me, that's an RPG; it's got rooms and corridors, so it has dungeons; it evokes in my mind what the game is like to play, what the experience will be when I play it.

I think it's just as evocative if not more so than many of the screenies posted in this thread which I assume evoke something for the people who posted them but just do absolutely nothing for me. I mean, some GI holding a disk? Nope... not inspiring me to play or make more games.

[Slash - Santiago Zapata]

No offense, but the term "evocative" is really fucking useless when you post pictures of Roguelikes.

Why? I bet this picture can evocate much more than most of the old-school, nostalgia games posted here.

Most games are graphic, and by that I mean they're visual language. RLs entrench videogames in this idea that they are inaccessable and separate from the rest of the world's art.

Roguelikes are graphic, they are visual language, just using a different non-conventional symbology. (from today's standard point of view)

One of the motivations to create rogue was to make the game world accessable to people for whom text adventures were too abstract, they got to see the dungeon map instead of just textual descriptions

Have you ever seen some Dadaist painting and wondered "why?" That's exactly the same response non gamers have when they try to experience games like RLs.

I'm not going to say RLs are bad games. I think that they're great as this entrenched kind of game. It's like high level Street Fighter play, only those in the know really know. Those elite few are the ones who glean something interesting. But pretending like it's evocative is silly. If anything it bares everything and highlights just how empty RLs are.

That's the common conception, as elite, nerd-only games that require a lot for too little reward. This is less and less true everytime with games such as DoomRL and others that try to lower the entry barrier.

And if you think RLs are empty... you better go and play one!

[shinygerbil]

To be quite honest, the roguelike screenshot actually provoked much more of a reaction from me than most of the others have so far. It reminded me of really good times - because that's what I always have when I'm playing roguelikes.

Surely, roguelikes still have "graphics", otherwise tilesets would be totally inconceivable. Just because those graphics are abstract - so what? It is still a graphical representation of some data, much like a lot of other games.

sg

[xix]

Look up ark that evokes emotions, and none of it will be as bland as a Roguelike. There may be text in an RL, but there's no texture. There's no feeling. It's all characters that represent another thing that represent another thing. The mystery and the allure is there, sure, but it's hidden. If you're going to put this picture:



in a thread with this picture:



You might as well have just called the thread "Pictures of games I think are totally cool, dudes!".

[Madgarden]

This is obviously a subjective topic, and I suggest that all posts should be considered equally valid. Just because it's not evocative to you, doesn't mean it isn't for others.

[Bezzy]

Exactly. All pictures "evoke" something in the audience, and that's always going to be a personal thing.

I see that roguelike, and I've never played one, but I'm still thinking "Hmm. That's got its own aesthetic"

At the end of the day, it's all imagery. And "Evocative" on its own doesn't mean anything, does it? Doesn't something have to be "evocative of something"?

[xix]

You sound like elementary school art teachers.

[Slash - Santiago Zapata]

Roguelikes evoke emotions, there is feeling on that picture... change that 'B' for a 'D' on the original picture and be sure lots of people will freak out!

You say the mystery and allure is hidden, but the same I can tell about the gigantic automata-statue, whatever is chasing that poor little guy on your other picture... what is the difference? a nice positioned angle over a well designed 3D structure? some fog in the air? But ok, I will stop flaming as I am completely aware there's no point

As Bezzy pointed out: It's got its own aesthetic. The fact that I myself can't perceive the beauty of a contemporary art structure doesn't mean lots of people won't gape in awe uppon sighting it.

... but oh well, evoke yourself!

[rz.]

pretentious baby-babble

wow, I really REALLY hope you're a troll.

[Xion]

Look up ark that evokes emotions, and none of it will be as bland as a Roguelike. There may be text in an RL, but there's no texture. There's no feeling. It's all characters that represent another thing that represent another thing.

What is any kind of gaming art but a representation? If you want to think of it that way, that screenshot you posted of SOTC, that thing isn't a giant. It's only a representation of one. A representation made up of many polygons, which represent 3d space which can only be illusory on a 2d plan such as a computer or tv screen. Books are made up of words, which evoke emotions, but each word is representative/synonymous/defined of/with/by other words. It's the story as a whole which evokes the emotion. And roguelikes, they have representations of things, too, but it's the whole and the context in which those representations are presented which emote you. For those who grew up in the era of roguelikes, I'm sure those representations evoke alot of emotions. Not me, maybe, but them.
And honestly, I really find it intriguing how roguelikes take known symbols and apply to them new meaning. I mean really, would you be able to get away with that nowadays?

Look up ark that evokes emotions, and none of it will be as bland as a Roguelike.

I mean really, that doesn't even begin to reek of any kind of truth. "Fine art" galleries contain some of the most ridiculously bland art. I went to the museum once. I saw a piece called "Primer on aluminium." It was primer on aluminium. What the fuck is this shit doing in a museum? It evoked an emotion in me, and probably everyone else that saw it, and yet it was even more bland than any roguelike I've ever seen.


Oh boy. I am so sorry for derailing this thing/contributing to its derailment. But I just wanted to share that Primer/Aluminium story.

Anyway, I took the purpose of this thread to mean "screenshots which carry meaning to you, and inspire some sort of feeling, perhaps a thick layer of nostalgia." Which is why I posted those edutainment game screens, which I LOVED when I was a kid, and my homeschooling thrived on.

[Bezzy]

You sound like elementary school art teachers.

Oh come on! I'm Middle School at the very least!



...



Why are you hanging around elementary schools?

[xix]

@ Xion

Look, there is empty representation, and there is something more. Evocative is the something more.

Take a look at the screenshots. Even though the polygons are representations of numbers and blah blah whatever... it represents something bigger. It represents a massive adventure embarked on by a single character. That your hero looks more tired as he gets more tired is an elaboration of the representation. It's fucking fantastic.

Then look at the RL. There are numbers that are explicit. Your HP, your MP, your inventory. Everything is laid out. Even if you want to pretend like you can imagine a world through the different ASCII characters... it's routine. There are no artistic choices picking out the information the game shows you. It's... just there.

Imagine this: the art equivalents are Leonardo and Raphael. Leonardo is remembered today as the better artist, but back in the Renaissance Raphael was regarded as the better artist. Why? Leonardo had darkness, mystery; he bent the rules. Raphael, on the other hand, made paintings almost perfectly. It was boring and dull and transparent.

All I'm saying is that there are leagues of difference between that RL and Shadow of the Colossus.