Bree
|
|
« on: July 09, 2011, 08:06:42 AM » |
|
So a little while ago, I decided to pick up Hero With a Thousand Faces, just to see what all the fuss was about. I've heard the book referenced in all of my film classes, and how the monomyth is essentially the root foundation of all storytelling. I found the book to be utterly fascinating in its comparisons of multiple cultures and how their fables fell in line with his proposed formula. What I am wondering though, is this really the only major formula? I have a hard time believing that EVERY single story can be fit into the monomyth, so what other kinds of story structures are out there? I've heard about Save the Cat, but is there anything else?
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
SamtoriTime
Level 0
|
|
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2011, 07:44:39 AM » |
|
The person to ask this question is Kal over at http://www.clickok.co.uk/index4.html ; he's the MASTER on this subject. The reason that there is no beyond hero's journey is that it describes the elements of story. Too hard of me to explain. Ask Kal.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
gimymblert
|
|
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2011, 03:10:02 PM » |
|
How does Anna karenin or Emma Bovary fit the mold?
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
SamtoriTime
Level 0
|
|
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2011, 01:48:09 AM » |
|
@biomechanic Yours is a common error. It's hero's journey with a chosen plot above. Star Wars is hero's journey with, lets say Overcoming the Monster (Vader), above. The Matrix is hero's journey with, let say Man vs Machine, above.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Philtron
|
|
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2011, 11:00:24 AM » |
|
I never liked Campbell's monomyth theory. He constructs a monomyth composed of story elements, but then the story elements can be rearranged and it's still the monomyth, story elements can be missing and it's still the monomyth, and in fact only one story element can be present and somehow it's still part of the monomyth. The last point especially makes the whole thing seem spurious and not much of a theory at all.
In response to the query in the first post. There are a lot of different story structures. They may not be wide spread or popular, and it might be difficult to analyze them structurally because there are so few examples of them, but they're out there. They might not even be "fun". Some authors you might want to look into: Franz Khafka, Jorge Luis Borges, Philip K. Dick, Jonathan Safron Foer, Jonathan Lethem. In terms of movie directors: Terry Gilliam, David Lynch, and Jean Luc Godard are some atypical directors. Look into anything experimental or surrealist or avant garde and you'll find story structures you haven't seen, even if you don't understand them nor even like them.
Also, just look at real life. The stories that unfold in real life do not obey the rules of the monomyth. They might not always make for interesting stories, but your own life shows a story structure that doesn't follow the monomyth.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Tiderion
|
|
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2011, 11:06:36 AM » |
|
Campbell is right that many stories fit the monomyth or hero's journey. However, this is not the only possible standard. In fact, the monomyth is actually quite specific. It requires a cadre of friends, a revelation, a state of atonement, and more. This may easily quantify an epic but it does not explain Greek comedies and tragedies. Tragedies that spiral out of control resulting in the death of the "hero" share only some of the qualities of the monomyth. In fact, modern science fiction, from which gaming pulls many of its stories, more closely follows a tragedy model against the monomyth. Sure, Mass Effect and Metal Gear Solid might easily fit the mold. However, Super Mario does not. Metroid does not. Castlevania does not. One can argue that the literal movement of the character from the beginning to the end, the presence of non-hostile characters, and the occasional plot twist would qualify these as monomyth spinoffs. However, there is no change in the resolve of the hero. While Samus Aran expresses emotion for the baby metroid at the end of Metroid 2, it does not alter her fundamental state of operational priority.
The monomyth can be a strong force in story telling but it is not the only one. The common criticism is that it is bland, reminiscent of tales from the dark ages. Read Things Fall Apart by Chinua Achebe and you can see how a story can be done better without the monomyth. Extra credit if you can tell me who the main character of the story is.
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
unsilentwill
|
|
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2011, 11:31:03 AM » |
|
Yeah this is a weird question. I don't think it's better to fit characters and events into a schema like this. Start with characters and problems and settings and think of how they would interact. I don't really like Campbell's approach at all.
There are so many different story types out there and categorizing them is a really bad move because it ignores what makes them unique. Don't write by saying "It's Seven Samurai, but with cowboys!" or "It's king arthur, but in space!" Some of my stories have people driving events rather than fate planning out a person's life (Though conflict against one's role can be a great plot).
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Ultima Ratio Regum
|
|
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2011, 03:11:46 AM » |
|
Having now added that book to my Amazon basket, from what I know already about mythology I think there's a clear and strong argument for recurring key themes.
With that said, I think those above who say it doesn't apply everywhere are right, but I think/fear it applies more to games than any other medium. This is not to go off on one about storytelling in games, can games be art, blah blah blah, but I think games are a lot more willing to buy into the standard formula. Though I'm nominally making a roguelike, I'm trying to do something close to Dwarf Fortress to break with exactly this - don't give the player an objective, but instead, give them a huge world to mess about in. Open-world games still generally have plots (Oblivion, etc), and those do generally adhere to the monomyth...
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|