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[Elmernite]

I read some comments on some other page (Can't remember which) where they were talking about the jump button and weather or not it should be the up key or another key.
(That wasn't the topics original purpose so I thought I would create one just for that.)
They made a good case for it not being the up key.
1) If your game has wall climbing the jump key suddenly becomes the climb up key and thats just confusing.
2) It's harder to map to a game pad.

And now that I think about it. Very few of the classic 2d games used up for jump. DKC, Mario, and Gunstar Heroes all use a jump button instead of the up arrow.

What do you think? What are the Pros and Cons of use the up arrow vs. a jump key; Does using the up arrow have a purpose? (Say a 2d mouse aiming platformer)
Let's discuss.

-Elmernite

[Alex May]

Make the keys configurable.

[godsavant]

It depends; run-n-gun games like Gunstar Heroes couldn't use the up arrow to jump because you also needed to aim and shoot upwards, as well, which had priority over platforming. Mario also used a jump button b/c in that game, you needed to be able to control your direction in midair, which would have been impossible w/ an up arrow (imagine having to press the up and right arrows on the d-pad at the same time).

In your case, (2d mouse aiming platformer, you said?) you could plausibly use the up arrow for jumping, since you can aim upwards with the mouse instead, and a keyboard is much more versatile than a gamepad.

As a rule of thumb, I generally make the jump on the hand that's not doing the direction control.

[Yuka]

I prefer some other button than the up one. I think it's harder to time jumps right with the up button, and sometimes I just forget because I'm not used to it. It gets frustrating.

[AdamAtomic]

i think it really just boils down to any other control issue you might have, which is basically this: is it easy to press precisely that button when you need to press it?  I think its pretty straightforward really.  On some control setups, like keyboard, up key is just another key, no biggie.  But on d-pads and especially analog joysticks, you're likely to get some imprecision, and i imagine it would be pretty frustrating.  There are exceptions of course, like step platformers (prince of persia, flashback) which are so precision-oriented that it becomes a factor of the game.  Should be noted of course that both prince of persia and flashback were originally designed for systems that had keyboards!

[ColossusEntertainment]

Make the keys configurable.

Let's say we do. What would the default be?  

[december]

Is jump the player's primary verb?  This is important.

[ravuya]

Is jump the player's primary verb?  This is important.

If it's the primary verb, do you assign it to a more prominent key, like the spacebar?

I would assume this is a run and jump game, so the primary verb is run, which is traditionally mapped to an axis.

[Robotacon]

I've got a game in the works where different characters have different controls but generally I like Jump to be a button. I reserve Up for aiming up, climbing up ladders and opening doors.

[december]

Is jump the player's primary verb?  This is important.

If it's the primary verb, do you assign it to a more prominent key, like the spacebar?

I would assume this is a run and jump game, so the primary verb is run, which is traditionally mapped to an axis.

Yes, if jump is a special thing you do then it should have it's own button.  Up for jump works in kung fu master where jumping is just there to modify the verbs of punch, kick and dodge, but in something where jumping is it's own thing it should have its own key.

[Gainsworthy]

Yeah, Up button a No-No. We prefer Shift. Or Z. The up button seems to seriously interfere with jumps requiring a higher level of precision, in our experience.

[Mitchard]

Nobody should or would assign jump, or any action, to an analog stick axis.
You probably shouldn't on a d-pad, as pressing  up would affect your ability to press left or right, and make it impossible to press down.
There is no reason you can't do it on a keyboard. Given the standard wasd layout it feels entirely natural to hit up to 3 directional keys at once, and due to the nature of the keyboard the buttons are completely independent.

I think that as long as your using a keyboard and don't have any other actions assigned to the up key, there's no real reason not to make it jump. It definitely makes the most sense for a mouse + wasd setup.

[december]

Honestly up for accelerator in driving games bothers me more than up for jump.

[Annabelle Kennedy]

using the up key is TERRIBLY annoying in every platformer ive ever played to utilize it.  it just feels unnatural to try and pressing it and other things at the same time.

[Xion]

As others have said, it's only okay when you're using keyboard+mouse at once. In any other instance, I will always prefer another key.

[William Broom]

Make the keys configurable.

Good control scheme > configurable control scheme.

I think it's better to not use the up button, because as far as I can see there is never any advantage to it.

[agj]

But there is an advantage: intuitivity (or naturality, or familiarity, as some would call it.) Up is a direction, and upwards you jump, so it makes natural sense. That said, it's not good when it obstructs a prominent mechanic, like in just about any 2D platformer, where you're supposed to make minute adjustments to your trajectory in midair, all the while holding the jump button to go as high/far as possible. It all depends on the game itself, so there's not really a recipe solution, like for most things in life.

I find Ico's solution interesting, though. I know we're mostly talking about keyboards here, but still: in most console games you jump with the bottom-most button (B for SNES, X for PSX), but in Ico you do it with the one that points upward (triangle;) this is complimented by the fact that the button that is opposite to it (pointing down; X) is used for going down most of the time. I don't think that the game is terribly intuitive (I, myself, had some problems understanding the mechanics at times,) but this scheme shows concern in making the control accessible. So yeah, not because every game does it in a particular way, or even because a particular solution has been proven to work in most cases, does a game have to use it in favor of some other way that might, perhaps, be more appropriate.

[Gainsworthy]

Theory's all well and good- (in fact, I never thought of Ico's controls that way, rather clever!)- but, any supposed intuition is unfortunately countered by what one's learned. For example, the Japanese system of O rather than X as a primary button provides hours of confusion for one such as myself, including a deleted save this one time.

By all I've seen (myself, friends complaining about controls), I can only assume novel intuition only works for the non-gamer, as they'd be the only types without bias on how it "should" work. 'Course, this only really happens with something like the Wii, by my reckoning.

Hence, I'm against the whole "up is jump" dealie because whilst it makes sense when you think about it, when you're playing something requiring timing to under  a second or so, you don't want thought-sense, you want ergonomic sense.

Or, I do.

[agj]

If you see above, I used 'intuitivity' as synonym with 'familiarity.' In the end, everything is learned, and the faster we can learn a new thing, be it by associating the experience with past experiences (analogies, metaphors) or simply by reusing the old, the more intuitive it would be considered. So yeah, just using what's most common is a way, but, precisely as you noted, gamers are used to some weird conventions that don't make any more sense to outsiders than Ico solutions. If we keep ourselves entrampled by these conventions for the sake of simplicity, games will never really evolve, and they will continue to be gamerwank, incomprehensible to those not already familiar with the medium.

In other words: let's not pander to our own comfort.

[Gainsworthy]

Hmm, you HAVE done much thinking on this, haven't you? Though, you are doing your final component of your course on this, yes?

Whilst I feel a little strange about continuing a discussion about the jump button- I feel it's a bit Gamerwanky, as you may put it- I'll continue, 'cause I may as well.

I agree that some conventions have stayed far too damn long, due to tradition and such- so, as a generalisation, I agree, to a degree. On the other hand, The Controller is so peculiar that the value of a comfortable layout will far outweigh the extra time taken to learn something that makes less sense (as, really, they're all buttons in the end).

As for things not related to the up button? Well, some conventions need to be changed, naturally. I uh, won't blab about that- my thoughts are too disorganised. I'll say one thing though- agj, I think you're gonna like this place.