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[redgyarados]

Hi!

I'm putting final touches on design document of my game.

The main goal of the game is to take care of your own town in a fantasy world. Player will control his avatar to maintain the land, terraform, put buildings on (for NPCs to live in) etc. The idea is for every player to have his own world (or more than one?) and visiting other worlds to help, trade items or just talk. Think Animal Crossing, but on much bigger scale.

There will be also common areas, like "the Town" in which you can meet with people without inviting them to your world.

So basically, this is going to be a social game with actual SOCIALIZING with people, with real co-op gameplay, not just "I'll invite you so you can click on some of my stuff and that'll give me points -- or something".

Actual question here if you don't want to read whole thing:

Should such game(any indie social game, for that matter) be tightly integrated with Facebook, just like *ville games are?

Game "published" on Facebook would have to be created using Flash or heavy javascript+canvas HTML. The huge advantage is that you are exposed to huge number of people (potential players/customers) if you do "suggest to a friend" part right.

Not integrating with Facebook lets you use whichever technology you wish. Also saves some headaches related to working with FB API. Potential playerbase is lower, though your players are more likely to be loyal to your game (I've read recently that Zynga games are constantly having ups and downs in player count).

What's your opinion, TIGForums?

[Richard Kain]

Game "published" on Facebook would have to be created using Flash or heavy javascript+canvas HTML. The huge advantage is that you are exposed to huge number of people (potential players/customers) if you do "suggest to a friend" part right.

Not integrating with Facebook lets you use whichever technology you wish. Also saves some headaches related to working with FB API. Potential playerbase is lower, though your players are more likely to be loyal to your game (I've read recently that Zynga games are constantly having ups and downs in player count).

Personally, I would consider using the Facebook API whether you are making a web game or not. Facebook is an enormous service with all sorts of built-in tools. If your game is a multi-player game, I could easily understand wanting to integrate Facebook, if for nothing else than the log-in system. Building and hosting your own log-in database can be a pain in the ass, not to mention the bandwidth from people accessing it. Use their Facebook profile as the log-in profile for your game, and you can deftly side-step that issue.

And this approach will work even if you are building your game for a platform other than the web.

The real danger of integrating Facebook is not taking the "Zynga" approach. Use Facebook to streamline their experience, don't abuse it to try to bloat your user base. If people really like your game, they'll recommend it to their friends, either over Facebook or in person. Use Facebook as a tool for providing feedback to the player, not as some maniacal marketing engine.

[redgyarados]

Thanks for your input!

What do you think about putting the game in browser, either using Flash or HTML+js? For casual games it seems like it'll open the game for wider range of gamers, making it possible for people who don't want to (or can't) install anything play the game. I can recall Notch saying that many people prefer to play Minecraft in browser, for various reasons.

It does introduce some limitations though, the first one I could think of is not being able to save too much on users' computers. Sandbox games that wish to save their huge generated worlds probably wouldn't work without external web storage (extra costs...).

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Personally, I would consider using the Facebook API whether you are making a web game or not. Facebook is an enormous service with all sorts of built-in tools. If your game is a multi-player game, I could easily understand wanting to integrate Facebook, if for nothing else than the log-in system. Building and hosting your own log-in database can be a pain in the ass, not to mention the bandwidth from people accessing it. Use their Facebook profile as the log-in profile for your game, and you can deftly side-step that issue.

i wouldn't call it too deft, because it'd make it so that people who do not have a facebook account can't play your game. and a lot of people don't have one

[Richard Kain]

i wouldn't call it too deft, because it'd make it so that people who do not have a facebook account can't play your game. and a lot of people don't have one

Facebook accounts don't cost money. One could argue that they do cost a small portion of your soul, but definitely no fiscal responsibility. And souls notwithstanding, that makes for a much lower barrier to entry than most other services.

And while it is true that there are plenty of people who don't have Facebook accounts, it is also true that there are multiple millions of potential players who do, and will have exactly zero barrier to entry.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

they don't cost money, but they cost privacy. there's a huge number of people who refuse to get a facebook account for privacy reasons

even when that's not the case, it's also extra trouble for a player; an extra step to go through, with email verification and so on. if i knew a game required me to sign up to a completely unrelated site to play, i wouldn't buy that game

[deathtotheweird]

eat a dick richard kain

[Triplefox]

Facebook is no longer worth bothering with as of July 1st.

Why? Facebook Credits. They want to hold your game hostage to their platform, so the TOS now requires you to use their payment system and no other if you use "Facebook Platform," which I believe covers almost all of their APIs.

If you want to bash out a quick product, sure, use Facebook or whatever. But if you're in it for a longer-term business you should be the one in control, not Facebook, nor Apple, nor any platform holder. For my recent efforts I've been using the Player.IO API, which is "open" in the sense that it lets me migrate away from them if my needs change. What they offer - logins, payments, multiplayer and database functionality - is quite a bit more appropriate for indie game developers than most of these all-encompassing "platforms."

[moi]

I don't have a facebook.
why?
-because it's dumb
-because it's myspace 2.0 (will be forgotten by everybody before 2015)
-it's for old people
-another reason that would get me banned if I said it
I don't know if I am the only one like that, but for me that's 100% of my friends who don't have facebook

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

you are 100% of your friends? (haha)

but yeah, for me my brother, father, bestfriend/artist, and girlfriend all don't have facebook, although my mother and two sisters have it, and i have it, so it's about 50-50 for my friends/family

[moi]

I don't think you have a girlfriend. You have pretty hands though, enjoy them

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

actually if you read the comments to my formspring videos you'll see her complementing my hands too, it seems everyone likes them